Poor Kids

[usxhe190]

*grabs some popcorn to watch the repeat show

for ease of the spectators, can we get the god-lovers to write in blue and the god-haters to write in red please. thanks!

[iranu]

*grabs some popcorn to watch the repeat show

for ease of the spectators, can we get the god-lovers to write in blue and the god-haters to write in red please. thanks!

The agnostics can use purple

[Koolpc]

The 'point' is to reproduce. And to live a good life. The same 'point' life has for snails, and dolphins, and pigs. See, although you like to dress things up with Gods and a higher purpose, you iz flesh and blood the same as an ostrich is flesh and blood. So we all play the same game mate, with the same rules.

The be all and end all of life is not just to reproduce. Where did you read that? The Beano?

We humans get to appriciate our lot a bit more, but regardless you are an animal, you came from the Earth, you will live, die and go back to the Earth, as will every living thing.

Ashes to ashes and dust to dust

That isn't enough of a miracle for you, you think thats mundane, and need to invent Gods to spice things up?

Not the point of inventing god. God was here in our lives a long time before science.

I hope you do mate, but you are kidding yourself, and confusing hope and wants with what is simply more likely to be true. Fear of death is a great reason to become a Christian. Its certainly up there as the main reason why Christianity refuses to die... because its followers refuse to believe they will.

I don't fear dying. I think you would find that true christians do not fear death. Why should we fear death? We believe in God and life after death! No reason to fear death!

The species will not advance by having faith in things that are almost certainly not true. Science will advance us. If your mother or father or brother were ill before they passed away, I think modern science, in the shape of medical treatment was the best hope, not faith.

So, you don't believe in miracles then? There have been lots of recorded instances of people having life threatening problems who have then gone on to be cured with no reason proved scientifically as to why? These people have nearly always been 'christians' with a very strong belief / faith in god

People live longer these days because of science, not faith.

There are some countries where the oldest people have lived the longest, not because of science but because of the way they live.

Science will cure AIDS. Not faith.

Maybe, but you can't catagorically prove that miracles don't happen?

This in no way points to the existence of God.

It also doesn't point to the fact that God is not in existance! Can science prove that god does not exist? No!

But do you at least question it? Whats the point of having a belief system if it doesn't stand up to questioning, and it unlikely to be more than a few nice stories?

We are human. Of course we question points in our christianity.

Faith is ignorance made a virtue.

Faith is not ignorance but a strong feeling of belief. Faith in god or life after death is, for me, very rewarding. Gives me a sense of being. No need to knock that. We are all different.

[Gr44]

The 'point' is to reproduce. And to live a good life. The same 'point' life has for snails, and dolphins, and pigs. See, although you like to dress things up with Gods and a higher purpose, you iz flesh and blood the same as an ostrich is flesh and blood. So we all play the same game mate, with the same rules.

We humans get to appriciate our lot a bit more, but regardless you are an animal, you came from the Earth, you will live, die and go back to the Earth, as will every living thing.

That isn't enough of a miracle for you, you think thats mundane, and need to invent Gods to spice things up?



I hope you do mate, but you are kidding yourself, and confusing hope and wants with what is simply more likely to be true. Fear of death is a great reason to become a Christian. Its certainly up there as the main reason why Christianity refuses to die... because its followers refuse to believe they will.



The species will not advance by having faith in things that are almost certainly not true. Science will advance us. If your mother or father or brother were ill before they passed away, I think modern science, in the shape of medical treatment was the best hope, not faith.

People live longer these days because of science, not faith.

Science will cure AIDS. Not faith.



This in no way points to the existence of God.



But do you at least question it? Whats the point of having a belief system if it doesn't stand up to questioning, and it unlikely to be more than a few nice stories?

Faith is ignorance made a virtue.

rofl.

A very good point, very well made and very sarcasticly put across!

You're right though. I personally feel people who believe in god are just wrong. But if they choose to believe in it and if it doesn't effect me - I honestly don't care. The same would apply for someone who thought they saw a zombie... although I'd probably be more inclined to call the men in white coats.

Reglion was a way to control people way back when. It gave people something to live for, something to give them motivation and help when times called for it. We now live in much more comfortable enviroment and have less need to rely on old myths ( my view ) to keep us content in our day to day lives - but if some people choose to continue believing in them for their own satisfaction, who am I to judge.

The bible is, for what little I know about it ( I'll admit as much ) nothing more than a story book. It has credibility from the millions of people who have worshiped it over the years. I also believe that many of the things written have been self-forfilling. We haven't kept good records of history until fairly recently so many of the stories can be blown out of all context and probably have been - although I'm sure elements of the bible stem from truth.

[G4Z]

Right, here goes.

Hello again Fuddam my old mate, I think Stu has been giving you a bit of a pummelling here and well... I just can't resist

I like the figures.
Well, it makes sense within the following concept: God is love. As such, He loves us. And the end goal is a UNIVERSE singing its praises to a loving Creator, not simply this earth. That is what the Bible is on about, ultimately. And the earth is simply where it starts. If He already has other sentient beings on other planets, no problemo - the more the merrier.

Ok, your making an assumption there, 'God is love' any chance you can give some evidence to support that assertion? Reason I ask is because if everthing in existence is attributable to god then so is all the human (or otherwise) misery in the universe and in my opinion if you have the power of omnipotence you have no excuses for not creating a perfect utopia. So where is it?

So the end goal is the universe to sing gods praises according to you, yeah? Care to explain how this magnificent superbeing couldn't just create a universe where all the lifeforms in it had it hardwired to do this worship singing lark? You know, its a bit like if I wanted to create a universe of dancing hamsters wouldn't I just create that from the get go instead of starting out with a mish mash of lifeforms, some with free will, some instinct driven and hope that it organises itself into a team of dancing hamsters? It just makes no sense.

Do not quote the bible at me for this, I want some real evidence. You know as well as I do that the bible is NOT the word of god it was in fact written and re-written many times by many many people and as somebody who studies the bible you surely know this.

[Gr44]

lol KoolPC.

I could write a reply to everything there but I'm not going to bother.

The fact is science is proveable. It's here. You're using it by communicating with me right now. It's fact, not a religion.

Christianity... how much of that is _fact_ un denyable fact? Not much.... You're on a back step before you start.

I have no issue with your beliefs, or anyone elses. But don't try and sugar coat is like God is 100% there and miracles are proof.

Plently of strange things happen in this world, as you'd expect given all the variables, I bet people once thought lightening was a 'miracle' but I'm hoping you know better.

People live to old ages without science because they're experts are living off the land, they don't eat junk food or drink like most people do in built up culture. Nothing to do with miracles.

[Koolpc]

Correct, the bible was written by man and i agree that lots of the stories have probably been twisted since it was written. Sometimes the 'church' manipulate stories etc to suite thier own purpose. I believe that the 'Kingdom of God' is within each of us. Not in church etc. I do go to church but that is for my own personal reasons. I feel peace there too.

[Agent]

Out of interest, how is being taught science any different to being taught a religion? On the one hand, people say that children should make up their own minds on religion, but to then be told they must learn and obey the scientific laws and theories as gospel truth...

Personally, I disagree with the idea of creationism and feel that it's missing key parts to explain details but I'm also not a great believer in some of the stuff you get out of theoretical phyisicts either because they don't feel right.

Science by its very nature teaches people to look at current understandings, work on them, argue with them, make new theory's, discard old ones. Religion by its very nature is defined by its texts or the 'word of god'. Thats excluding the fact that these texts can by interpreted differently by us imperfect humans.
One requires and encourages you to question what you're taught. One requires that you believe what you're told, and should you question it, you're told to have "faith".

*Sigh*... I see it coming YASvRT
Yet Another Science vs Religion Thread

Exactly what I thought too.

*bangs head against brick wall*
Aaand, Political Correctness brought into the equation in 5... 4... 3... 2...

With all due respect lads, I don't come in your threads complaining about what you've posted. I'd like the same courtesy
If you don't like the subject, or at the very least are not willing to make a contribution to the topic - Dont post in it

can't be born a christian

christianity is a choice, not something you can inherit. christianity 101.

Couldn't disagree more.
You take a kid that's born into a Christian family. You take one that's born into a Muslim family. Which faith do you think each will believe in?
Very very few people choose a religion. They are born into it and told 'this is how it happened'.

How'd religious folk like it if scientists went around some well known churches and starting ripping apart their religion using science.

I don't care what they choose to teach but it seems out of order the place they're doing it and not presenting both sides of the argument.

This was largely why I posted the video. No intention of starting a CvE war, but when you take someone to a science museum and tell them what you believe in, totally ignoring all the other evidence that's on the walls next to them....well that's just ignorant.

The blokes comments in that video are laughable. If I ever have kids and found out they were being taught like that, they would be moved school the next day.

out of curiosity, why's it always creationism-versus-evolution? evolution does not (nor attempt to) explain the origins of life, merely their development over time

Evolution by its very nature doesn't strive to find a reason for why we are here, only how we developed. In contrast most religions are the opposite - They start with a reason and then try to fit everything around it.
This makes it an easy target for creationists who misunderstand what evolution is. A prime example is this bloke.

Why does everything have to be scientifically proven? Whats wrong with Faith?

Faith requires belief in something that's comforting with no scientific provable evidence. For a scientist, that's a problem. For someone who's religious, its not. Just depends on which side of the fence you're on

There are lots of things in life that cannot be explained 'Scientifically'.

Like what?
Science never claims to be able to explain everything. It aims to be able to explain everything in time.
Now, while its highly unlikely it will cover everything (Even the so called 'theory of everything' is missing things apparently), the idea is to keep researching to explain different things.

This works in the same way that we couldn't "prove" the earth was round 1000's of years ago....
Whoever thought that it was round was an outcast because the bible makes several references to it being flat. Dispute it today and you'd be laughed at.

I love my faith in god etc. Gives meaning to life etc. No need to keep having a go at those who have a belief.

No one is having a go mate
On the actual topic: What do you think of the video, should the most basic of science be taught to kids as 'wrong' by a creationist?

Fuddam - I would like your input on the video and what you think of it

It'd be nice to have more comments on and around the video, not the usual CvE war

[G4Z]

Reglion was a way to control people way back when. It gave people something to live for, something to give them motivation and help when times called for it. We now live in much more comfortable enviroment and have less need to rely on old myths ( my view ) to keep us content in our day to day lives - but if some people choose to continue believing in them for their own satisfaction, who am I to judge.

This is very true, the trouble is they don't keep it to themselves they force it on kids such as in this topic or they create a furore over some issue like the current animal embryo/stem cell debate. I mean really, who the hell cares what some priest in Scotland thinks about this issue, who the hell is he to moralise over this?

If they really did keep it to themselves, then I agree it would be nothing to worry about.

[fuddam]

Correct, the bible was written by man and i agree that lots of the stories have probably been twisted over the years.

that's a special study of mine, and the evidence just keeps on getting stronger and stronger FOR the accuracy of the Bible, historically, as a historical document. See previous threads.

Short summary: the bible, esp the new testament, is the most verified historical document we have from those times. More than any secular document. and the 'twisting' in repeated translation is just plain bollocks, and can be proven so. in black and white.

[Stewart]

I appologise, but you have to be sarcastic because people like Kool PC ask you if you got it from the Beano when you say the point of life is to reproduce, then ask you if you believe in miracles, then say science can't disprove the existence of God.

This makes me want to punch him in the face, if only to wake him up.

Like, the point of life is to reproduce, this is silly and childish and as such I probably got the idea from a comic, right? Then he starts talking about God and Heaven and an afterlife... rooted in serious, grown up reality that mate.

*punch, punch, punch*

[Koolpc]

lol KoolPC.

I could write a reply to everything there but I'm not going to bother.

The fact is science is proveable. It's here. You're using it by communicating with me right now. It's fact, not a religion.

I agree, science is proveable, but not in everything. There are lots of things that science cannot explain

Christianity... how much of that is _fact_ un denyable fact? Not much.... You're on a back step before you start.

You will soon find out when you pop your clogs!! Its all about FAITH

I have no issue with your beliefs, or anyone elses. But don't try and sugar coat is like God is 100% there and miracles are proof.

I am not saying you have to believe in god! That is up to you. It is 'My' belief.

Plently of strange things happen in this world, as you'd expect given all the variables, I bet people once thought lightening was a 'miracle' but I'm hoping you know better.

There are still lots of things that cannot be explained.

People live to old ages without science because they're experts are living off the land, they don't eat junk food or drink like most people do in built up culture. Nothing to do with miracles.

Didn't say it was anything to do with miracles?

[directhex]

y'know, if the beano these days is all about reproduction, then times have changed

[Howard]

Yes.

But maybe there is no magic, no ghosts, no goblins, no gods, no way of talking to the dead, no heaven, no hell, etc, etc.

For example, this idea of respecting other peoples views... so if Fuddam or someone else comes along, convinced that he talks to ghosts every second tuesday, or that goblins live at the bottom of his garden, we have to treat these claims as if they *might* be true?

'ZOMG i seened a ghost a it was a headless horseman!!1!'

Bollocks did you.

'ZOMG i maded a quija bored and a goblin apeareded in the corner of the room'

Bollocks did you.

'ZOMG theres a man in the sky and he doeses magic and he maded me and you and all the ants!!1'

Yes mate, I respect your views.

Why the special treatment for delusions just because you have the R word? Religion can make any nonsense claim respectable just because its a religion?

I absolutely couldn't agree more. I'm not going to write an essay on why, I just agree.

[G4Z]

that's a special study of mine, and the evidence just keeps on getting stronger and stronger FOR the accuracy of the Bible, historically, as a historical document. See previous threads.

Short summary: the bible, esp the new testament, is the most verified historical document we have from those times. More than any secular document. and the 'twisting' in repeated translation is just plain bollocks, and can be proven so. in black and white.

So what...?

Its a historical document or the word of god?

Even if it was the most reliable historical document as you say it still does nothing to prove the assertions that you put forward. Where is the hypothesis and the experiment that proves all this stuff, eh?

[Koolpc]

I appologise, but you have to be sarcastic because people like Kool PC ask you if you got it from the Beano when you say the point of life is to reproduce, then ask you if you believe in miracles, then say science can't disprove the existence of God.

Yea, but who says the point of life, human life, is to reproduce? Its ok for you to be sarcarstic to me, even before i started replying extensively?

This makes me want to punch him in the face, if only to wake him up.

A stupid comment only a schoolkid would make

Like, the point of life is to reproduce, this is silly and childish and as such I probably got the idea from a comic, right? Then he starts talking about God and Heaven and an afterlife... rooted in serious, grown up reality that mate.

You are repeating yourself now!! Sorry, was it the Dandy then?

*punch, punch, punch*

Idiotic to say the least!