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Thread: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    I don't have Virgin Cable TV, I have Sky Digital, I just have Virgin Cable internet. So iPlayer can come in handy, like, for example, watching Stehpen Fry and the Guttengberg Press, that was on BBC4 yesterday and I missed due to 50% of my channels not working at the moment.

    So I need iPlayer to watch it.

    I also need to punch Sky in the face.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    Quote Originally Posted by nichomach View Post
    Said this before, and I'll say it again - why would anyone on cable need iPlayer to start with? We already have an on-demand service available that's more than adequate, doesn't choke our Internet connection, and has stuff from a shedload of channels including the Beeb. Sorry acrobat, but VM can traffic manage iPlayer into the dirt on the cable network, and I'll be applauding.
    Why would you be applauding? How does it benefit you if they "manage it into the dirt"? Do you like it when other people suffer? Would you PREFER that? Do you kill small animals and then beat their corpses with a stick shouting HA HA!?

    A lot of people have VM internet, but don't have the TV.

    I hate how they are picking on BBC like BBC are doing something wrong... BBC are actually FINALLY offering something good for a change.. When all the other channels are fannying around, the BBC have put out this iPlayer and it works well. They are keeping up with the technology and doing what the US TV stations have been doing for years, and now they are being victimised because of it? These rubbish british ISP's are all charging everyone full price for a half arsed service, and now this whining at the BBC just makes them look even more pathetic.

    They fell out with SKY, now I wonder if BBC will tell Virgin to shove it and stop them using their BBC HD channel.. that'll leave them with a grand total of zero HD channels. That'll teach 'em.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    OK, firstly other channels haven't been "fannying around" and if you'd bothered to ****ing read you'd see that my comments apply to all the VoD services - 4oD, for instance, offers IMO a better service, taken on its merits, than iPlayer, albeit over the same crappy Kontiki P2P mechanism. At the moment, I have a fast, reliable internet connection at a reasonable (though not cheap) cost. If VM don't traffic manage, either that's going straight in the crapper, or I'm going to be hit with increased charges to support a "service" that I don't want or need. IP is a crappy mechanism for delivering high quality video, P2P over IP is worse, and whichever way it gets handled it's going to result in anyone who doesn't want it being crapped on to support those who do.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    OMG just seen this on virgin website;

    Traffic management

    "download at least 300MB of traffic each, with the top 3&#37; of uploaders uploading at least 150MB of traffic each.

    Any users hitting this amount during peak times (4pm till 9pm) will have their broadband speed temporarily traffic managed – their download speed will be set to 1Mb, with their upload speed set to 128Kb. This will last for 5 hours from when the traffic management policy is applied."

    If you download 150MB of "traffic" in the peakhours (not defined as Business Peak, but infact 4pm until 9pm) you will be throttled for 5 HOURS!

    WTF?! 150mb is practically NOTHING

    "Aren't you simply trying to cut costs?
    We've never believed in cutting costs for the sake of it. We want to deliver the best possible value to all our customers – and that's exactly what we're doing. That's why we've recently doubled the speed of our top broadband package up to a supersonic 20Mb, and will be launching 50Mb broadband services in the future."

    What is the point of 50mb broadband if you cant download more than a low quota anyhow?!

    However, on this page;

    Halfprice Broadband - Broadband Size: M

    "Up to 2Mb service

    No download limits
    PCguard - Protect your PC with anti-virus, firewall & pop-up blocker
    A modem to connect you to the internet
    Help when you need it, online and on the phone
    Download a music track ◊ in under 20 seconds
    Wireless router for &#163;40
    "

    so is that 150mb (limit) not a download limitation?

    Can anyone comment on this? im about to try and complain to the ASA, i have checked out OFCOM website, they are totally useless, 3 help links all telling you to complain to the ISP...and states that the ISP's are FAIR (when infact it cannot prove this)

    im not happy whatsoever.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    150mb applies for your upload nickg, so if you upload 150mb+ your upload is throttled only.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    Quote Originally Posted by moogle View Post
    150mb applies for your upload nickg, so if you upload 150mb+ your upload is throttled only.
    yes, but you'd be amazed how much upstream you need to download.

    TCP has error checking and ackowledgement overhead remeber.

    150mb up, could easily be used, downloading 1gig down, if there was a higher than normal error rate.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    not that im saying what virgin media are doing, it is totally legal as they have given you unlimited downloads, there is no limit except for your speed being cut for a bit and remember they say "up to X mb/s" so they have covered their behinds.

    Id rather be put down too a certain speed for 5hours(well less would be best) if i get a constantly good connection when im not in them. I get 3.9mb/s and sometimes 4.1mb/s and im on 4mb broadband, im paying &#163;8 for it and going too be upgraded to 10mb someday xD, for having a constant speed like that i cant really complain, shame with downloading game patches etc but i can live with it.
    Uploading speeds need too increase imo, surely a higher upload speed=lower ping ingames? because it has too send info and recieve so both affect it.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    The window for exceeding your download limit is only 5 hours, you can download 24/7 the rest of the day at full speed without an issue. There is no 'cap' on the limit either, they just slow you in the evening if you go over it.

    Really, its nothing compared to the other ADSL ISP's who have set in stone limits.
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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    The window for exceeding your download limit is only 5 hours, you can download 24/7 the rest of the day at full speed without an issue. There is no 'cap' on the limit either, they just slow you in the evening if you go over it.

    Really, its nothing compared to the other ADSL ISP's who have set in stone limits.
    Indeed - with BT during the 'peak' hours you are traffic shaped regardless of whether you have downloaded something or not.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickg View Post
    No download limits
    They are clever though because there still isn't actually any limit on how much you can up/download. It would only be a limit if they stopped your connection when you reached a certain amount, but instead they just slow you down. So you can still technically download/upload as much data as you want... the only catch is that they change your speed. It's only a data limit if they say a maximum of 10gb per month or whatever. So there is no limit on the data you can download, but there is a speed limit. So saying no download limit isn't completely true because there is a limit on the speeds, but they can get away with it because all ISP's are satan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Really, its nothing compared to the other ADSL ISP's who have set in stone limits.
    Yeah I have heard horror stories about some of the ADSL isp's. Things like putting a limit that is so harsh it basically slows your broadband down to 56k dial up speed. At least with Virgin Media, it's never that slow even if you are being "traffic managed". You can still surf, check your email, play a game.

    Quote Originally Posted by nichomach View Post
    OK, firstly other channels haven't been "fannying around"
    They clearly are seeing as you can't get the last week of their programmes streamed over the net for free.

    Quote Originally Posted by nichomach View Post
    and if you'd bothered to ****ing read you'd see that my comments apply to all the VoD services
    No, you said you would applaud Virgin traffic managing iPlayer into the dirt.

    Quote Originally Posted by nichomach View Post
    4oD, for instance, offers IMO a better service, taken on its merits, than iPlayer, albeit over the same crappy Kontiki P2P mechanism.
    What about those of us without Virgin TV? I have Virgin internet and it's great. I have SKY+ so I rarely miss anything, but if there was something on BBC1 and I didn't know about it, and hear about it a few days later... I can always get it on iPlayer - whether I'm at home or in my lunch break at work. Aren't you happy for me? Why do you want them to put it into the dirt?

    Quote Originally Posted by nichomach View Post
    At the moment, I have a fast, reliable internet connection at a reasonable (though not cheap) cost. If VM don't traffic manage,
    They already traffic manage.

    Quote Originally Posted by nichomach View Post
    either that's going straight in the crapper, or I'm going to be hit with increased charges to support a "service" that I don't want or need.
    Ok now we're getting somewhere. So you want them to screw everyone else so that you are ok (even although you don't have any problems so far). I think that's fair enough, self preservation and all that, but it's not something that should have to be chosen, one or the other. There can be both. If you wave the defeatist white flag every time something good and popular comes along... there won't be anything good. Where would you stop? YouTube, MySpace, Direct2Drive, NetFlix? Would you do away with ALL of those things as they get popular?

    Quote Originally Posted by nichomach View Post
    IP is a crappy mechanism for delivering high quality video, P2P over IP is worse,
    It's not though... it's great. Theres nothing wrong with the technology at all. The only problem is the British ISP's struggling to manage their customer numbers. The US ISP's don't have any problem. Most of the US TV stations have been doing what the BBC has been doing for AGES. And it's a lot better than the iplayer too. So there's nothing wrong with the technology. If there is a problem it's either the UK ISP's or the infrastructure in the UK, and that can be improved so long as there's a demand for it.
    Last edited by acrobat; 16-04-2008 at 08:25 PM.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickg View Post
    OMG just seen this on virgin website;

    Traffic management

    "download at least 300MB of traffic each, with the top 3&#37; of uploaders uploading at least 150MB of traffic each.

    ...snip
    Hah that would explain the rubbish download/upload speeds i've been getting. Seeding & leaching essential mixes definitely uses the limit during that time. although general browsing doesn't appear to be affected. But to be fair i'm paying for a 2mb unlimited connection i'm damn well going to hammer it to get my money's worth if i can, and so long as there's essential mixes i haven't got that's what i'll be doing, downloading a game on steam won't help either but like i said i'm paying for it so i'm going to use it.

    To be fair when i get a place of my own i wouldn't actually mind paying more for a connection that does what it says, but so long as i'm in a student house or at my parents that's not going to happen, so i make the most of what i have.

    edit: as an asside i'm guessing that virgin have started bitching more because the "small minority" of heavy users is becoming a larger minority with the advent of iPlayer etc...

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart View Post
    I don't have Virgin Cable TV, I have Sky Digital, I just have Virgin Cable internet. So iPlayer can come in handy, like, for example, watching Stehpen Fry and the Guttengberg Press, that was on BBC4 yesterday and I missed due to 50% of my channels not working at the moment.

    So I need iPlayer to watch it.

    I also need to punch Sky in the face.
    lol

    poor old Stewart

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    Quote Originally Posted by kasavien View Post
    edit: as an asside i'm guessing that virgin have started bitching more because the "small minority" of heavy users is becoming a larger minority with the advent of iPlayer etc...
    It makes me wonder how over subscribed they are. If something else great comes along, is Virgin Internet just going to collapse? It's weird too because I download about 500000 times more data from other things than iPlayer. I barely even use iPlayer once every few months, but I'm almost permanently downloading other stuff.

    Also I'm on that 2mbit service too like you. I would get a faster one, but some people are saying that their 20mbit service is flaky at the moment, so that scares me off. And this bitching about iPlayer makes me think they are a bunch of gits at Virgin. If I was paying all that money for a top of the line connection and they gimped my connection to iPlayer I'd be so annoyed. I rarely even use iPlayer, but it's the principle.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    point taken
    Last edited by jakebullet; 18-04-2008 at 06:12 PM.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    If you're going to leak stuff from the corporate Intranet, use some sort of anonymous posting. There are tons on Google, or just use Tor.

    We can match your IP to your other account in seconds, and should VM decide to go all legal on HEXUS, we would have to pass that information along even though we wouldn't want to.

    I'm not encouraging (or discouraging) you to leak info, but if you're going to do it, protect yourself.
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    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

    i read it while i could and it's good to see him back tracking on his statements. im sure he customers and content providers cold work towards providing some sort solution towards financing the expansion of their networks without unfairly penalising their customers or the content providers.

    A better way of charging for the internet would be that same way data is charged for in a datacentre. i.e 95th percentile on the data used. Te technology to charge people for the data used exists and is used by some isp’s around the world. But charges have to be fair and our access to data not tampered ,managed or monitored i.e.phorm
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