New virgin media Ceo: Net neutrality is a load of b*****cks

[Rosaline]

When it comes to asking content providers to pay for better QoS, what must be remembered is that these costs will ultimately have to be passed onto the consumer. Content providers that charge a fee will have the raise their prices, those with advertising will have to adapt their promotional content, or the overall quality of the content provided will have to lessen.

So why is it then that so few ISPs are openly talking about directly charging the consumer for providing a higher QoS for their desired content providers?

Technically, it is more challenging to accommodate such a scheme, but it is entirely possible. It would maintain proper market competition between all content providers, since an ISP can adjust their QoS criteria according to their subscribers' demands. It would also allow a more consumer-orientated approach to broadband marketing (different demographics can have their own tailored QoS scheme offered to them), and bring broadband pricing schemes in line with those used for subscription television (as much I personally dislike channel 'packages', I can see why they are used).

Sadly, however, I think this all comes down to an age old problem. Ultimately the major content producers have the most money between them, and it is initially easier to try and bully them into paying, than it would be to convince your customer base that they want to pay more.

[Oobie-]

The problem is is that the stupid outweigh the tech savvy, so even if a few hundred or indeed thousand customers leave VM, they wont care. The new 20mb and 50mb services will bring people in.
A guy on another forum said it bluntly.

Fact is, all you guys are dispensable - they don't really care if they loose a couple hundred customers in a month; because there sales volumes outweigh their losses.. so you stay; great - you leave; they don't give a *beep*.

Customer service is non-existent, its clear from overselling - probably at least 60% of their networks are congested and overloaded due to overselling. It's unfortunate, if they didn't sell such high capacity lines 20 Mbit / 50 Mbit - they wouldn't have this problem; and we'd all be happy gamers - but end of the day.. big numbers sell (remember how much a hype 8 Mbit ADSL had); so as long as people are buying their services - they'll keep piling you all onto overloaded networks.

There are so many better alternatives to VirginMedia; I think my 4 Mbit ADSL outweighs VirginMedia's largest products - sadly.

The internet is content rich, but its also full of retards who wouldn't care about something like this. I just hope to god it doesn't go ahead because other ISP's will follow suit and profit/greed will TRULY be achieved on a new level.

[Steve]

Now, I know that we're behind countries like Sweden, but what are their contention ratios and congestion like?

[acrobat]

Now, I know that we're behind countries like Sweden, but what are their contention ratios and congestion like?

I don't think it really matters because if congestion was a reason for poor internet, then the yanks would be in major trouble, but the opposite is true. Their internet is about a century ahead of us. The connections you can get there are really amazing. I've seen people in their homes (not businesses) with 100mbit UPLOAD and download connections. That's amazing. 100mbit download alone is great.. but having that as an upload speed as well is just amazing.

So we shouldn't have any trouble. We are no more overcrowded than US cities, and it's not like we are short on people to cover the costs either.

I think our problem is because the entire infrastructure is all down to BT and they can't keep up. I hope they get a move on. Also even although Virgin has its own infrastructure now, it's important to keep the pressure on them or they will just make their own crappy path and we'll have no choice but to go along with it. I read this:
thinkbroadband :: Virgin Media testing changes to traffic management policies

which is worrying. Makes me think I'd like to have nothing to do with Virgin Media.

[Output]

Indeed, that does sound worrying - and interesting notes regarding the US - it appears even more clear that having the entire infrastructure down to BT is severely holding us back.

[alsenior]

i set up a petition a few weeks ago and it got approved today. if you think that isp's should not be allowed to to priotitise data for profit i uge you to sign this petition and pass it around.

Petition to: force isp's to abandon plans to make content providers pay for elevated speeds on there network.

[Andy3536]

i set up a petition a few weeks ago and it got approved today. if you think that isp's should not be allowed to to priotitise data for profit i uge you to sign this petition and pass it around.

Petition to: force isp's to abandon plans to make content providers pay for elevated speeds on there network.

signed

Edit: posted on a few other forums i visit too.

[arthurleung]

I'm glad I'm with a real ISP - Zen.. shame it's based on BT's shambles that is ADSL..

Using Zen 20GB Package at home, used to have the Unlimited(!) 2Mbps at home which worked wonderfully well.

i read it while i could and it's good to see him back tracking on his statements. im sure he customers and content providers cold work towards providing some sort solution towards financing the expansion of their networks without unfairly penalising their customers or the content providers.

A better way of charging for the internet would be that same way data is charged for in a datacentre. i.e 95th percentile on the data used. Te technology to charge people for the data used exists and is used by some isp’s around the world. But charges have to be fair and our access to data not tampered ,managed or monitored i.e.phorm

Well, AFAIK most small customers (with only a few cheap servers) are now using bandwidth allowance just like what UK ISPs does. For example I got mine in NL, 30 euros/mo with 2000GB/mo, not to mention a decent dual core server included Some of my friend used to have 95% metering but have since moved onto cheaper and higher allowance pagkages.

You can't really compare datacenter with residential network though. It cost ISPs like Zen £200 per Mbps on a BT Central, the cost will be much cheaper for VM and other LLU ISPs, but it will never be as cheap as datacenter connection.

May be people should start living next to datacenter and just hook up to the backbone.

[iranu]

Indeed, that does sound worrying - and interesting notes regarding the US - it appears even more clear that having the entire infrastructure down to BT is severely holding us back.

Imagine what it would be like if the telecom market had not been broken up and privatised in the 80's under Maggie's Conservative Government; that's right, you'd be paying £29.99 a month for 56K. Atleast it's recognised now and other service providers are allowed to lay their own network infrastructure whilst others can sell on BT bandwidth.

[badass]

I dont really see the problem with an ISP allowing companies that pay them to allow the ISP's subscribers to have better access to the clients services TBH.

[alsenior]

I dont really see the problem with an ISP allowing companies that pay them to allow the ISP's subscribers to have better access to the clients services TBH.

because not having to pay meant that every site got equal access to the network.and that big site with lot's of money or big corporations had no disernable advantage over other smaller sites. it's what made the internet great in the first place

[badass]

because not having to pay meant that every site got equal access to the network.and that big site with lot's of money or big corporations had no disernable advantage over other smaller sites. it's what made the internet great in the first place

Big companies already have an advantage over smaller companies and individuals. They can afford more bandwidth.
What advantage to the average internet user does preventing large companies forma being able to pay to get their data to the end user more quickly?

[Oobie-]

Big companies already have an advantage over smaller companies and individuals. They can afford more bandwidth.
What advantage to the average internet user does preventing large companies forma being able to pay to get their data to the end user more quickly?

Thats just it. Not everyone is an average user...and the problem is right there. Getting data to a client QUICKER than someone else...Who says you have the right to have your data(website) prioritised over someone else?

[Betty_Swallocks]

Who says you have the right to have your data(website) prioritised over someone else?

Standard commercial practices, that's who.

Same way that if you can afford an Aston Martin you get a better car than if you can only afford a Vauxhall Corsa, or if you want your package to be delivered tomorrow instead of some time in the next few days you pay extra.

Not saying that I like it but it's a fact that in just about any commercial transaction you get a better product or service if you're prepared to pay more. Why would the internet be different?
Like it or not it's now a commercial undertaking. Personally I think it should be run on a non profit making basis for the benefit of everyone, but it isn't.

[NightshadowUK]

The thing is IPTV's only just getting started. The BBC have finished (or are near to finishing) digitizing their ENTIRE archive with plans to have it freely available online. Hell one of our lecturers (after paying a subscription fee) is already streaming 720P baseball from the States. If iPlayer / 4oD are causing ISPs problems I dread to think how they'll cope when things really kick off.

Time's are-a-changing, and rather than trying their best to delay the inevitable ISPs need to adapt. Personally I think the answer is a pay-for-what-you-use system, as bandwidth will eventually become as much a basic home commodity as water, gas, and electricity.

[Noxvayl]

Time's are-a-changing, and rather than trying their best to delay the inevitable ISPs need to adapt. Personally I think the answer is a pay-for-what-you-use system, as bandwidth will eventually become as much a basic home commodity as water, gas, and electricity.

Agreed... ISP's need to pull there fingers out each others arses and sort out there ****. I mean when you have demand for a product naturally you need to start developing ways to supply that product more effectively to meet that demand. Thats just basic business practice but apparently the internet is different now :S

ISP's seriously need to get there networks upgraded because they are pretty bad(especially in the UK compared to other 1st world countries).

Adapt or die, the customer is always correct, whatever happened to those business principles?

If virgins attitude to net neutrility is that it is a load of bollocks then I say we need to teach them a lesson... prove to them that net neutrility isn't bollocks by boycotting the basterds and see how they like that.