10% tax band petition

[Barrichello]

If you bleed the wealthy too heavily, you remove the incentive to earn that extra bit. If the government try to take too much, they simply decide that it's not worth working the extra days only to lose 90% or more, so they don't. And the really rich decide to live in one of those other five countries and you lose all revenue from them.

And beyond that, it is that wealthier class that are often providing the entrepreneurship and investment that drives our economy forward. If you penalise earnings too much, you not only remove the incentive to work, but you most assuredly remove the incentive to take risk and without that, there's no investment.

Very good points raised there which many do not consider.

According to the calculator I am now over £300 better off this year so sorry won't be signing the petition. I'm sure most Londoners are in the same boat.

I would not consider myself particularly wealthy (by London standards) hell its expensive living here

If truth be told over recent history its always the higher earners that have been taxed more, for once in a blue moon higher earners are given a break and its front page news - and everyone is up in arms about it.

On a political level it wont be good for Labour who are penalising the people who historically they have represented most - so the best thing those that are not happy can do is rather than sign a petition is to vote them out!!

[j1979]

If truth be told over recent history its always the higher earners that have been taxed more, for once in a blue moon higher earners are given a break and its front page news - and everyone is up in arms about it.

and rightly so!

On a political level it wont be good for Labour who are penalising the people who historically they have represented most - so the best thing those that are not happy can do is rather than sign a petition is to vote them out!!

And vote for who? its not like there is a viable alterative for the low paid anymore.

Time for a revolution, ive no problem watching some blue blood bleed red.

[Lee H]

Who was it that said charity begins at home?

I think Labour have well and truely shot themselves in the foot with the abolishion of the lower tax rate for low paid workers. Generally, labours main percentage of votes came from the working class, but come the local elections in the next few weeks I fear that these voters are going to raise a middle finger to Brown and Labour, and vote in other candidates from other parties.

Mark my words, Labour have gambled and tried to gain grounds on the 'middle-classes' here, but in the process of trying to clamber these votes they've gone and truely annoyed the working classes. Talk about a major case of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[Blitzen]

I can't see a compelling reason, to allow them access to things like healthcare at the same level as someone who's paying £100k tax, for someone who's paying £3k

All i can say is i would rather pay into a system where we are treated like people rather than be treated by how little we have.
You comment is disgusting and shameful.
I earn a VERY good wage (as do you or so you keep telling everyone), and i THANK GAWD i havent got self indulgent, self righteous viewpoints like yours.
You must get very dizzy up there on your moral high ground.

YOU are the sort of person this country could do without.....not the poor sod that has to work in a factory for £5 an hour. Maybe they arent paying huge sums into the system. What does that matter? They are providing a service for the rest of us either directly or indirectly. Its these kind of people that allow us to live the nice lifestyles. They certainly dont hinder it as you seem to imagine.

Your mother was a teacher. If they arent a drain on society what is. There arent many job where you do 35 hours a week and get 3.5months A YEAR paid leave is there.
You mention your dad was an Army officer. Thats also scrounging off the state (which you hate so much).
Forces housing is either free or heavily subsidised. So in turn does that make your dad a 'drain on society'? Using your logic it does. Just think of the lads in the field under his 'command' (from an office). They are being shot at whilst he has his dinner parties and drinks sherry.
(Let me say, that last sentence could be wrong and he may have been a frontline officer. Unlikely as there are very few but sorry for that sherry drinking comment if he was)

Its obvious you have led a charmed life where everything has come easily. If at any point you had visited the real world you would know just how selfish and ignorant you sound.

One day i really hope you lose everything you have. Maybe then you will realise that the world doesnt revolve around you and your money.

[TheAnimus]

All i can say is i would rather pay into a system where we are treated like people rather than be treated by how little we have.
You comment is disgusting and shameful.
....*snipty pointless insults*....
not the poor sod that has to work in a factory for £5 an hour. Maybe they arent paying huge sums into the system. What does that matter? They are providing a service for the rest of us either directly or indirectly. Its these kind of people that allow us to live the nice lifestyles. They certainly dont hinder it as you seem to imagine.

Ok, i think the problem is you think i actually like the outcome of my logic, and think that i wouldn't be first in line to break it? Please read the post, i completely admit my hypocrosy with regards to the NHS drain that is my mother (who as a teacher has tax contributed barely 1% of her cost the NHS i'd guess).

But once again i get to the point, we don't have endless bounds of these resources do we? How do we divy them up?

Think of it this way, there are 2 slots total for ingrowing toenail removeal. One this week, one 6 months away, now, there are 2 candidates, one is a low skilled easily replaced worker, one is a dr himself capable of performing the operation (thou obviously not on himself). If you put the quack first, the other person would get their operation sooner.

Denying prioritising a scarse resource (ie the money to pay for the NHS) based on the production of it is in-effcient. This is the crux of the matter and my point. I'm not saying i particually like the out come, but it would be more efficent (in the economist sense of the word). Polatical reasons behind the increased cost of UK healthcare asside (was all the extra dosh squandered) a bill has to be footed.

You mention your dad was an Army officer. If thats not scrounging off the state (which you hate so much) then what is??
Forces housing is either free or heavily subsidised. So in turn does that make your dad a 'drain on society'? Using your logic it does. Just think of the lads in the field under his 'command' (loosest sense). They are being shot at whilst he has his dinner parties and drinks sherry.
(Let me say, that last sentence could be wrong and he may have been a frontline officer. Unlikely as there are very few but sorry for that sherry drinking comment if he was)

He was a gunner, worked overseas most of his life, and has been defened in service of this country in one ear (as where most if not all of the troups that where involved in the trails). I would argue that its no more scrounging of the state than a nurse or a polatition, as can be seen by the difficulty they have recruiting, unlike nurses or polatitions. But hey, attack my family by all means, i'm sure its just my lack of compassion that stops me seeing how you prove your point that i'm a monster, and you you'll never end up a monster like me.

[pauldarkside]

Blitzen, I have to say I agree with the sentiment in your post if not the overall tone (which is why I didn't add my thanks).

I actually signed that petition shortly after it was published (and before it arrived at Hexus) for the simple fact that it's hurting those who can't afford to support people on higher wages; people profiting from this mess.

Some of the opinions on here are very worrying and come across as "well I'm alright Jack so sod everyone else". It's quite sad to be honest.

[Blitzen]

He was a gunner, worked overseas most of his life, and has been defened in service of this country in one ear (as where most if not all of the troups that where involved in the trails). I would argue that its no more scrounging of the state than a nurse or a polatition, as can be seen by the difficulty they have recruiting, unlike nurses or polatitions. But hey, attack my family by all means, i'm sure its just my lack of compassion that stops me seeing how you prove your point that i'm a monster, and you you'll never end up a monster like me.

I didnt attack your family. I just stated that maybe they also have takien from the system aswell and i gave instances of it.
This is also why i added the 'apology in case of' statement at the bottom of my post.
I have the greatest of respect for ALL the armed services as i am ex-serviceman myself.

Think of it this way, there are 2 slots total for ingrowing toenail removeal. One this week, one 6 months away, now, there are 2 candidates, one is a low skilled easily replaced worker, one is a dr himself capable of performing the operation (thou obviously not on himself). If you put the quack first, the other person would get their operation sooner.

The only way that example made sense is because you were specific about who would be operated on.
What i feel you really want to say is that the low skilled worker should be shuffled back for someone that is a high earner as they have been paying more into the system and therefore, by your twisted logic, they deserve fast, preferential treatment.
You just tried to hide you example behind the doctor example.

[TheAnimus]

But this isn't ever achived, whilst i'd imagine i give more of my income to charity/tax than the average bear, i'm not really doing squat am i? Hands up, who's spent money on coffee/smoothies/snacks in the last week. Heck smoking and drinking. Sooner spend money on a vice than helping someone who's in real poverty.

Some of the opinions on here are very worrying and come across as "well I'm alright Jack so sod everyone else". It's quite sad to be honest.

So whats your total YTD expendature on stuff listed above?

Because this tax, my comments about NHS asside, there are people dieing because of lack of clean water, cheaply cureable deseases, mossie nets etc.

How can you live with yourself spending a penny on anything but the cheapest staples to survive, whilst letting these people die, knowing that it happens.

My point is that we're all hypocryts.

[danroyle]

this thing completely suck we are on a very low income in our house 1 child 1 full time worker and the pay rise my missus got last year means nothing as the 1k payrise she got to put her into the heady heights of 12.5k a year, now we have lost out in the first month by £35 so £400 over the year(if my figures are right).

cheers gordo take from the poor and give to the rich.

[TheAnimus]

I didnt attack your family. I just stated that maybe they also have takien from the system aswell and i gave instances of it.
This is also why i added the 'apology in case of' statement at the bottom of my post.
I have the greatest of respect for ALL the armed services as i am ex-serviceman myself.

So moving on from that then, how do you describe the difference between helping people in wales who are un-employed, even thou there are people in far more dire need elsewhere in this world?

Racisim, Xenopohbia?

For the average price of a chemo course, i wounder how many people we could provide immunisation to, or clean water? (example chosen purely because my dad's on his 3rd week right now).

Why do we draw the line there?

[Blitzen]

My point is that we're all hypocryts.

Not all of us.
As much as i disagree with your views i actually think you are probably one of the least hypocritical people that post here.
I actually applaud you for that.

Although i very rarely agree with you, at least you are honest in your assumptions and believe you are correct.

Morals, whether right or wrong aren't always easy to admit to and stand up for.

So moving on from that then, how do you describe the difference between helping people in wales who are un-employed, even thou there are people in far more dire need elsewhere in this world?
Racisim, Xenopohbia?
For the average price of a chemo course, i wounder how many people we could provide immunisation to, or clean water? (example chosen purely because my dad's on his 3rd week right now).
Why do we draw the line there?

If there were answers to these things then we would live in Utopia. Its never going to happen.
People are more inclined to help the people of their own nation/culture/religion. Thats just human nature im afraid.

(Debate aside.....My dad also had Chemo for Prostate Cancer 5 years ago. I hope it goes as well for yours)

[TheAnimus]

If there were answers to these things then we would live in Utopia. Its never going to happen.
People are more inclined to help the people of their own nation/culture/religion. Thats just human nature im afraid.

But i'm saying if we assume 'we're all equal' and that there are finate resources, we could help more than we currently do because we're been in-efficent.

All i'm saying is these resources should be made the most of, and the simplest way to do that is via economy. It might not be the best, but its the simplest, and is better than the system we currently have.

Now most of the ideas your dislike already exist, private health care is a shining beacon of this. The company i work for dosen't trust the NHS to fix me in a timely fashion. So despite how long i've spent on this forum, i'm still to hard to replace, so they give us private health care (which smacks my personal alloance down!) but this sends a message to the goverment, we have a two teer system, where the teir is defined by wealth alone. This is bad because it means if i needed say chemo, with stage 1 lymph, i'd get it sooner than someone who had stage 4. Hardly fair is it? Where as if the government was honest about the teired system, it could have a factor of wealth * seriousness.

Whilst i might be convinced in the moral supremency of my thoughts, that would lead to more people having access to better health care than the current system?

(Debate aside.....My dad also had Chemo for Prostate Cancer 5 years ago. I hope it goes as well for yours)

Ta.

[Blitzen]

I agree with the private healthcare.
Me, my wife and my two daughters are all on my policy. Its not because i dont trust the NHS to give me the correct treatment. I just feel, that if i can afford it, and that if there is a problem, we have a better chance of seeing the next day.

Also, if i pay for private healthcare, the money the state wouldve spent on me, can go to some other family that cant do it. That way maybe they will be seen faster and life will turn out ok for them aswell.

I havent got a problem with paying for the NHS if i dont use it though. Its there if i want it, and thats the point.

Paying for the police/local councillors/civil sevants/politicians perks/huge petrol prices DOES annoy me though but thats a different story (sort of). If i get started on that then this will be the longest thread on the internet

Its all about value for money.
NHS = good value
The sectors mentioned above = very poor value for money

[Zyte]

You guys are forgetting another group of people. I have recently taken a hefty pay cut which has landed me in the under £17k/annum bracket, because i have decided that to take a job in which ill get trained with a system will gain me money in the long run. Does this mean, because i have made a concious choice to earn less for a period of time i should also get lose a larger proportion of my earnings?

This is not true for me specifically cos im actually a whopping £20 better off because of the changes, but im sure there are other people who have done a similar thing to me, which will be getting hit by this.

[TheAnimus]

Also, if i pay for private healthcare, the money the state wouldve spent on me, can go to some other family that cant do it. That way maybe they will be seen faster and life will turn out ok for them aswell.

I havent got a problem with paying for the NHS if i dont use it though. Its there if i want it, and thats the point.

You see i don't think it says that at all.

I think its just a way of saying I'm happy to let other people have a lower standard.

[Blitzen]

You see i don't think it says that at all.

I think its just a way of saying I'm happy to let other people have a lower standard.

I would love everyone to have private health care (wouldnt be private then i suppose).

The standard of care isnt better privately. The waiting time is the key for me. If i can afford it then im happy to do it.
I cant be held accountable for people that are on a lower wage. Thats not my doing.