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About LinkBacksTake me to your lizard! I vote for the green lizard, because if I don't vote a lizard the wrong lizard might get in.*Originally Posted by M0nkeyb0Y
* Badly paraphrased and shamelessly stolen from Douglas Adams.
Take me to your lizard! I vote for the green lizard, because if I don't vote a lizard the wrong lizard might get in.*
* Badly paraphrased and shamelessly stolen from Douglas Adams.
Quite frankly they are all pretty useless. However much I think this labour government has screwed up I can't bring myself to vote for Cameron or his party. Their vague platitudes and releases of small and inconcequential policies along with their childish ridicule of labour's record whilst not suggesting anything better has just turned me off of them completely.
In my eyes the most sensible party is the one that has no chance of getting elected- lib dems. Quite frankly I may as well save my shoe leather than walking down the road to vote for them!
Not around too often!
Agreed.
I just think they're a complete embarassment at the moment. All they ever seem to do is release press statements saying "we'd do the opposite to what labour did" whenever public opinion is against Gordon Brown, and call for inquiries into everything that's controversial in the hope it would give a "labour were wrong" conclusion. I'd rather be led by a party with an interest in bettering the nation than one interested in battering the opposition.
Naturally, they'll still stand for all that they ever have done, with Disraeli being a minor blip in an otherwise unwavering position for the past 200 years, but they're certainly trying to convince a lot of people (through their disillusionment with labour) that they're a genuine alternative for everybody in all walks of life - I don't know how many people are going in for that though.
i sadly cant afford to vote BLUE as we are low income and mr cameron doesn't like us lower class types, i dislike labour but will have to vote for them next year or we will be in financial difficulties.
I don't think you understand.
20p tax, labour
£50k debt per head of population, labour.
Enless by low income you mean living on disability benefit, your better off voting tory than labour.
Lib Dems have previously said they will raise taxes, so mabye an indie is your best bet?
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23p tax, conservative.
Conservatives wouldn't have done any better in this area, probably worse.£50k debt per head of population, labour.
What of the other parties? I have never voted Labour and wont this time. But there is no one who really stands out.
The difference is we know how badly labour have screwed us over - and I see absolutely no evidence that anything's likely to change there should they stay in power. They've had how many years to do something meaningful? As far as I can see they spent the two terms blaming the previous government for everything and thenafter proceeded to dig us into a very dark hole.
Still, maybe they just need another few years to complete their masterplan, right?
Urk.
Crosshair VIII Hero (WIFI), 3900x, 32GB DDR4, Many SSDs, EVGA FTW3 3090, Ethoo 719
Currently it doesn't matter who you vote for in terms of the next couple of years, as it is going to be tough financially. Personally I will vote Conservative (even though they don't really deserve the name) as another term of Labour will see more monetary waste, nannying control and knee jerk nonsensical politically expedient legislation.
The only plus side for the Lib Dems would be that they are that useless that they'd end up doing nothing, which sometimes can be a good thing. Unfortunately they are far to pro-EU which is the last thing we need. It's about time this nation woke up to the fact that although we have to live with a "global" economy and politics, in the long term being self sustaining is the best policy.
Still one thing is sure, a lot of people will vote based on what keeps them in pocket rather than what is best overall. Makes you wonder why Labour have created such an all pervasive "benefits state"... despite it being part of why we are in such a financial mess.
If Wisdom is the coordination of "knowledge and experience" and its deliberate use to improve well being then how come "Ignorance is bliss"
How much has the 15% vat, and stalling over the tax bands cost? I'd sooner have a up front honest one, than a posponed "don't worry we will pay for it tommorrow" tax. Because it would be easier to swallow. So now more tax is needed to reduce our defecit before the pound tanks.
Yes because everyone knows how the tories love to tax and spend. Why would they have done worse, their ethos/mantra has NEVER required the IMF to help.
Also how the tories have traditionally gourged themselfs on off balance sheet lending such as PPP schemes?
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i do understand no i dont live off of disability we have low income under 20k in our house and a 5 year old son we get tax credits to top up our income, we live a town that has high living costs and the lowest average income, the town that joins ours has one of the highest rates of children living in povertyin england, if mr cameron gets in our taxes will go up and our tax credits will go down.
And yes we could probably move to another town but then we have to find a home jobs and uproot our son from his friends,
I Don't care about debt per head i care about food being on the table and a roof over our heads and i will vote with that in mind!!
Tories have promised to ax the labour NI tax rises in 2011. That would make you better off.
They've not said anything regarding tax credits, thou personally I hope the whole bloody system will be scrapped. So you tax someone, then give some back? Why not just tax less in the first place because ultimately ni=gi*(1-t)*e where ni = netincome, gi = gross income, t = tax, e = efficency. How efficent do you think tax credits are? Truely awful.
So where is the money going to come from, saying you don't care about debt per head is somewhat short term. I would rather have to eat tesco value fish fingers for the next 2 years, rather than suddenly find myself truely impoversished in 3 years time.
Debt can be very bad, google "bond crisis" and you will understand. You can't just push all the problems onto tommorow, you have to take responsibility for the mess we are all in.
Last time we had debt as high as this, we had effectively from an economics point of view lost a second world war. And even then the debt was less. Think about that for a second.
Like i said, mabye an indie would be a good bet for you, but it certainly isn't going to be tax n spend labour.
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They have never faced a global economic meltdown like we just saw. IMHO they would have borrowed less, definitely, but I think the effect of the recession would be much worse as well - and the IMF may well have been forced to step in. Don't forget that for the most part the UK has recieved praise for its dealing with the situation.
So okay yes, I agree short-term debt would have been lower under the Tories, but longer term the economy would be worse, and we would be in recession for longer.
I know it's a different system, and different problems, but you can't blindly say a right wing approach is better than a left in these circumstances - look at America where the right wing arguably has caused the problems to be far more severe than they have been in the UK.
First one. Northern Wreck.
Entirely GB's fault. He changed the legislation regarding lender of last resort. If the information had been able to disseminate in a slower controlled fashion, rather than spooking them, it wouldn't have happened.
Short-Term, Long-Term every kind. The problem is the tories control spending too much, Labour on the other hand can't help themselfs. The difference is tories are honest about their spending and taxing. Labour love to crank up the NI, changing what it is all together, they also love PPP and off balance sheet.
The republicans are a very different kettle of fish to the thatcheriate tories, or the cycling smily ones we have today, its not fair to draw direct parrallels.
Would the recession have been longer under the tories, lets look to our europian neighbours who are out of the first trough. We flew in harder, because we had more debt (or leverage), the more leverage you have, the better the highs, and the longer much more painful the lows.
I wouldn't like to say labour have made the recession shorter than the tories, because we have no evidence either way, however historically and with basic analysis of similar events, we can say that excessive debt makes it worse. That is what they have given us.
Do you think 15% vat helped? Even ze germans took the piss out of us for that. how many billion did that cost?
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TheAnimus, I think you are sadly deluded if you think we would have avoided these problems if the conservatives had been in power. It would have happened whoever was there. I think either option would have been nasty, spend or not and both would have had unpleasant long term consequences, be it national debt, unemployment or loss of the financial institutions. I also think that we would have seen personal and buisness debt levels just as high under the tories. Fair enough they would have not spent as much on government, but then what state would our public services have been in under them? Don't forget, behind Smiley Cameron is a whole hoarde of the same old, braying tories dying to cut taxes, shaft the poor and get us out of europe. Still, in some ways its better than the drab, uniform dullards who sit behind the current government.
Not around too often!
i understand about national debt and also know exactly which state our goverment is in. i also remember what things were like last time the conservatives were in, also from the way you speak you have probably never applied or not needed to apply for tax credits, while they are hugely inefficient they are a lifeline for families like mine.
And even with tax credits my missus works full time and i do any work i can get around the kid being in school and even with the help we get we sit and watch our friends with big houses and flasher computers and bigger tellies getting 6-8k more a year for being on benefits.
So i have to look at making sure i get in no more debt rather than how much debt our leader gets us in, i also realise that we need to make cutbacks to services and thats fine aslong as its not the health service or schools.
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