Fatties.

[Mama Sumae]

One of the comments found in the article:

The obese are the only sector of society who are allowed to be constantly attacked, joked about and insulted because of a physical attribute. Obesity is a medical condition, whether due to insulin imbalance (hormones) or overeating (which is itself an illness). The excuse given for the abuse is that it is self-inflicted, but so is drug addiction, alcoholism, and sports injuries. I know a man who lost a leg through drinking and driving his motorbike but it's not acceptable to poke fun or abuse him. On the contrary he is treated with great respect because he is "disabled".
Helena, Sussex UK

The manner this thread was posted and conducted is disgusting.

[finlay666]

One of the comments found in the article:



The manner this thread was posted and conducted is disgusting.

That comment makes me want to make fun of the douche that threatened lives by drink driving, it's a self inflicted injury after all.

Overeating is not an illness unless caused by an ACTUAL ailment

Everything tasting good is not an ailment

[TooNice]

thinking its okay to judge someone based on how they look...

Morally speaking, it's not. Or at least most of us have been probably being taught not to judge by appearances at one point or another. Unconsciously (and consciously) though, I do not doubt that that people will often act differently based on another's appearance. This is not always negative though, for instance, someone may give up a seat when (s)he sees an elderly. Said elderly may be very healthy and fit from a lifetime of regular exercise, and as capable of standing as a less active person in the 30s, but it's not always obvious (even if they aren't using a cane).

Similarly, while no one can be sure that another person is obese because they are too lazy to exercise, I have trouble believing that many.. dare I say, most are not in a position to do something about it if the choose to.

[...]offer them guidence and if they dont accept it fair enough... not go on to make thier life a living hell because of the way they look, or the way they are, especially if it doesnt effect you, which lets face it, someone being fat walking down the street effects you as much as a skinny guy farting in the ocean 5000 miles away...

That's pretty much my stance in most cases. If a large person walk past me in the street, (s)he is not going to get a second look from me. Still, if a particularly large woman wears a crop top, low rise jeans and a thong.. well, I would not say anything rude to her, but to be PC, I would say that she did pick a very unflattering cloths for her shape to my eyes.

There are however instances where someone's size do really get in the way. Take for instance a crowded tube. If someone is so big that they need the entire width between the seats, then everyone else would need to move out of his/her way when (s)he wants to get off. People can't just move aside. It's not as huge deal, but I'd say that it's about as unpleasant as a skinny guy farting in this very same train.

And no, I do not see it as picking on fat people. They have every right to be take the tube, just as a smoker are allowed to smoke outside in front of a door. But it's not going to change the fact that I find both to be a nuisance.

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Regarding tax on food. To be honest, I agree that classification would be difficult. Still, while you are correct in saying that by eating more, you are already paying more tax, cigarette is the same (the more you smoke, the more you get taxed), yet it still has a higher tax than food.

The problem really is that you can make perfectly healthy food less, or plain unhealthy by, for instance, deep frying. The only classification that may be somewhat straightforward is fresh food vs processed food.

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MSG was invented by the Japanese and employed extensively within China & Japan....two countries with the some of the lowest obesity rates in the world. It's about diet & education - can't blame it on the food, can't blame it on the government...can blame it on the parents, but only to a certain extent...

I wouldn't expect MSG to cause obesity either, given that there is little/no energy in it. That said there is at least one study that supports it and another that refutes it. And just because something is not calorie dense, it doesn't mean that it can't negatively affect health in other ways.

I also don't think that Japan/China provide 'better education' diet wise. The food may be overall healthier, at least in Japan, but a lot of Chinese food uses a lot of oil for frying purpose. I am wondering if genetics plays a role (try buying some semi-fashionable clothes in Japan - yeah the length is shorter than what you'd find here for the same size, but it's also more narrow by an even greater amount). For girls though, I think that a large part is media and peer pressure. Here, you get some who takes it too far (anorexia), but I think that large number don't care.

Now look at typical British Born Chinese/Oversea Asian female students. The ones who are called 'fat' in their home country are on average much slimmer than the ones called fat here. And many (most?) are trying to lose weight. But notice that I said 'lose weight', not 'lose fat'. I've been told by several that they stopped going to the gym because they gained weight after a while they went to the gym. I've tried explaining that it is likely to be due to an increase of muscle mass which is heavier than fat, but most would have none of it. Maybe they know and just making an excuse, but nevertheless, while education is a good thing, I think that it may well be overshadowed by the culture itself.

[KIAEddZ]

Obesity is a medical condition, whether due to insulin imbalance (hormones) or overeating (which is itself an illness).

This is what i hate.

Over eating is an illness?

An actual physical ailment that causes you to eat too much. gtfo.

Greed and an inability to control yourself has never been and never will be an ailment, and modern culture and its tolerance and acceptance of these forms of attitudes (political correctness gone utterly crazy), is one of the reasons why the world is in such a state.

[Biscuit]

One of the comments found in the article:



The manner this thread was posted and conducted is disgusting.

Which is why quite a few of us have been swaying the discussion towards more healthy opinion sharing of the actual matter at hand

This is what i hate.

Over eating is an illness?

An actual physical ailment that causes you to eat too much. gtfo.

Greed and an inability to control yourself has never been and never will be an ailment, and modern culture and its tolerance and acceptance of these forms of attitudes (political correctness gone utterly crazy), is one of the reasons why the world is in such a state.

Do you feel the same about anorexia? yeah ok sometimes its more to do with an attitude but sometimes its not easily controlled.

[peterb]

This is what i hate..

Perhaps because you hate what you don't fully undertand?

Over eating is an illness?

An actual physical ailment that causes you to eat too much.

.

There are some physical medical conditions (including hormone imbalances, that affect the way the body metabolises food. Similarly some drugs can also affect metabolism, cortico steroids for example cause the classic 'puffy face' if taken for prolonged periods and also contribute to weight problems.

Greed and an inability to control yourself has never been and never will be an ailment, and modern culture and its tolerance and acceptance of these forms of attitudes (political correctness gone utterly crazy), is one of the reasons why the world is in such a state.

That may be true, but there are recognised psychological conditions leading to compulsive food consumption, just as Anorexia and bulimina are recognised psycholgical conditions leading to extreme dieting.

I'm not saying that all cases of obesity have a medical cause - I don't don't know what the proportion is, but my guess is that it is quite small - and it may be used as an excuse by some for not loosing weight.

But that doesn't mean that you can rule it out in all cases, or be quite so dogmatic about it.

[KIAEddZ]

Perhaps because you hate what you don't fully undertand?

Sigh, I am far far from ignorant, I am just not willing to toe the line in your ordained acceptance of the "its not my fault" culture.

There are some physical medical conditions (including hormone imbalances, that affect the way the body metabolises food. Similarly some drugs can also affect metabolism, cortico steroids for example cause the classic 'puffy face' if taken for prolonged periods and also contribute to weight problems.

Okies.

Of course there are "some" medical and hormonal balances which cause large shifts in metabolic consumption of calories and effect the bodies ability to break down fats, BUT, in the rare cases these are extreme enough to cause a person on a sensible diet to put on weight to the point of obesisty, my "hatred" is 100% unjustified and certainly not intended (just for note i do not in ANY way condone the bullying that started this thread)

BUT these cases are rare, and this is usually just used as a petty excuse by obese people. Pathetic justification of a weak will and gluttoness mind (ooh sounds like a preacher lol).

AND of course everyone has differing metabolic rates, so yeah some people got it easy, lucky them etc etc but no matter what, eating the right amount of calories for you and maintaning a healthy lifestyle will make it impossible to become obese.

If you are eating too many calories a day and doing fk all exercise, it isnt your hormones, its your choices.

So you dont want to, cant be assed, you like your food, and dont care that you are fat. Fine, but dont try and justify your life style choice with bs like you're spouting.

You're obese (I dont know if you are, this isnt aimed at you its a statment) because you eat more calories than you burn off, and your body packs away these calories in the form of fat.

Your "illness" is greed and laziness, its not an illness its a choice, if you are at ease with your choice then it bothers me not, but attempting to de personalise it and make it "not your fault" is a common thread in this society, and one of its largest problems.

Nothing is ever anyones fault, peadophiles are that way because they are abused as children, murderers had broken home lifes etc etc, rapists have hormonal inbalances and this attitude of tolerance and unwavering understanding, starts at the bottom of the ladder with issues such as obesity and smoking etc.

This society has birthed a culture of blameless lives, but its bs, and the world in general and especially western civilsation is suffering heavily as a result of it. No one is ever accountable, no one ever needs to lay the consequences of their choices on their shoulders, its always someone/something elses fault.

Do fat people cause this? of course not, do attitudes like yours instigate and stroke societies tolerance of human degredation? Hell yes they do.

That may be true, but there are recognised psychological conditions leading to compulsive food consumption, just as Anorexia and bulimina are recognised psycholgical conditions leading to extreme dieting.

I'm not saying that all cases of obesity have a medical cause - I don't don't know what the proportion is, but my guess is that it is quite small - and it may be used as an excuse by some for not loosing weight.

But that doesn't mean that you can rule it out in all cases, or be quite so dogmatic about it.

The proportion is minute, a quick google search will reel of a lot of studies on obesity and its causes.

Above post is stronger than maybe I would like, but its a subject I feel passionate about, i,m 35 and in the past 20 years I have seen very few positives in the cultural changes the world is following, scares the sht out of me, my children are walking in a world that is far scarier than the one as a child I lived in.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I think it is time that people take responsibility for the actions they take in life and the consequences they cause.
Even with current financial crisis you have people who took out loans to fund lavish lifestyles they could not afford. Of course this was not their fault but the fault of the banks. The same goes for drinking too much,eating too much and many other things. It is always easier for people to blame others instead of asking the hard questions of where they have gone wrong and todays society is too biased towards "blame"!!

However making fun of people for their over indulgences and mistakes is NOT the way forward as it does NOTHING!! If you cannot help these people to rectify their mistakes and thereby help them to help themselves it is better to shut up!! It is always easier to be an armchair general than be a real one. Remember none of us our perfect so unless we don't mind being be attacked for our imperfections too it is nothing hypocrisy and arrogance on the part of the attackers.

[shaithis]

Above post is stronger than maybe I would like, but its a subject I feel passionate about, i,m 35 and in the past 20 years I have seen very few positives in the cultural changes the world is following, scares the sht out of me, my children are walking in a world that is far scarier than the one as a child I lived in.

Much like the rest of your post reads.....you only seem to concentrate on the negatives.


No wonder you have such an aweful, jaded view.

[Perfectionist]

Eh, I'll take jaded over a fluffy cloud of "innocence"/ignorance/gullibility anytime. Some of the things humanity does, you just have to have not seen for yourself to be not be the same.
BTW in the news today http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8339647.stm
"Miserable" is a bit overdoing it, but it does make sense that people who take a more realistic view rather than happyclappy "it doesn't matter what we do sheezus is going to save us!" and such have "more attentive, careful thinking" and pay "greater attention to the external world"

[Bazzlad]

You know what, I don't get it.

I'll tell you my story.

Being fat happens. I know this.

I'm 5' 10. From the ages of 17 - 21 I walked around at 9 1/2 stone - a decent build mind, not a waif, but weight was the last thing on my mind.



I think I got to 23. And I noticed. I was getting fatter. I was up to 13 stone. I'd stopped boxing due to injury, and was eating rubbish and drinking a lot of beer (now don't get me wrong I wasn't going crazy with it, just a normal amount).

I hit 25. By now, my mates were taking the mick out of my weight (again not constantly, but it'd become a fair target) and the weirdest part for me was I didn't really care about it. In my mind it was just a bit of weight that I could lose if I wanted.

Facebook did it for me. Being quite an arrogant male, I'd obviously filtered my photos before uploading them (who doesn't? ). I had a picture uploaded of me and realised I had gone way too big (14 stone).



I wrote out a diet plan for myself, and organised a training program 1hrs worth of exercise - 3 times a week.
I stuck to this like glue. I didn't drink more than 4 pints in an entire week (whereas before it was 8 pints friday night, 8 Saturday, and a smooth top up of 6 for a Sunday), I ate 0 junk food. Seriously, none. Not a crisp, not a chocolate, nothing. I ate well, and was never hungry (if anyone wants my diet plan just PM me - it's nice and simple).

3 months passed I lost 2 stone.
(Interestingly enough a couple of mates who were trying to lose weight at the same time as me, didn't manage to.) They trained as hard as I did, but funnily enough were in the pub on a night, and still ate takeaways. (Note to anyone wanting to lose weight - exercise alone is fine for sustaining a weight - not losing weight, a sensible diet IS required!)

I'm now at a nice comfortable 12 stone. I feel 1000 times better about myself now, and fitness wise I'm superb!



- What's my point?

I've seen it on both sides I guess, and I hate to say it, but I think in most cases being overweight is purely down to laziness, I don't know if people can be happy overweight, I know I wasn't, but it was easy to lie to myself. I also know how easy it be complacent.

My main worry is the world we live in, where responsibility is never taken.
(Generalising here - don't bite my head off)

Kids aren't naughty, they have ADHD

People aren't lazy, they have glandular problems. (I know a man who had glandular problems [he was 30 stone]). He got his stomach stapled and is now 15 stone. Weird that.

It seems for every problem, there's a condition to blame it on, Mike's an alcoholic, but it's not his fault, his Dad was one.

In this World (medical problems aside) our actions and their consequences are ours alone, and it's time we took responsibility for them, rather than accepting them and looking for someone/thing to blame.

[chrism]

This is what i hate.

Over eating is an illness?

An actual physical ailment that causes you to eat too much. gtfo.

Greed and an inability to control yourself has never been and never will be an ailment, and modern culture and its tolerance and acceptance of these forms of attitudes (political correctness gone utterly crazy), is one of the reasons why the world is in such a state.

Tolerance and acceptance? Since when? The fat kid in class was always an easy target for jibes and put-downs, and attitudes are much the same throughout society.

You seem eager to put obesity down to greed, when it's not necessarily the quantity of food that is the problem so much as the quality of it.
One of my work colleagues, who's trying to bulk up for MMA has a tough time doing so despite getting through a ton of food (mostly pasta) throughout the day. So yes, you could call him gluttonous in so far as he's eating more than he needs to, but you certainly don't see that in his appearance.

Nothing is ever anyones fault, peadophiles are that way because they are abused as children, murderers had broken home lifes etc etc, rapists have hormonal inbalances and this attitude of tolerance and unwavering understanding, starts at the bottom of the ladder with issues such as obesity and smoking etc.

Shall we pretend that there are no underlying causes for people doing the things they do? Who's saying that these people aren't responsible for the things they do? Do you have any evidence these people get lighter sentences because of their history?

You talk about lack of accountability in the world today, and whilst blanket statements like that sound great, I don't see that with the rise of litigation/blame culture, and some of the ridiculous claims made in the name of health and safety.

[KIAEddZ]

You talk about lack of accountability in the world today, and whilst blanket statements like that sound great, I don't see that with the rise of litigation/blame culture, and some of the ridiculous claims made in the name of health and safety.

Fiscally motivated actions such as litigation are certainly not what most of this thread is about.

My supposed hatred, which is far more a frustration and refusal to accept, is aimed towards those that have made lifestyle choices, which lead to a detremental state, obesity being a prime choice, and then choose to defend their position with an attempt to shift the blame on a supposed 3rd party (Hormones, Glands, upbringing, financial status, food quality etc etc)

The fuzzy wuzzy tolerance of moder day society, born our of the fear of being marked a bigot, has made saying the sort of things said in this thread, not socially acceptable, yet weighing 30 stone is.. even if these peopel are sniggered at behind closed doors.

As I said in earlier post, if people are at ease with their obesity, and honest about the why they are, then sigh, I got no issues, but to come across all "its not my fault, its my glands" whilst intaking 4000 calories a day and doing no exercise, is somethign I feel i cant just let slide. This culture of responsibility transference should not be accepted, and the only way to change it is to simple do that, not accept it.