Can work demand a doctors report?

[razer121]

Hello all, anouther of my work related feuds...again! Anyway since the 28th i have been of work, i had to go hospital and came pretty close to death (if i hadnt had gone hospital then bye bye razer lol) So of course with this i had to get doctors notes and provide them for work.

Work has been really good and understanding, well they was when they found out i was in hospital! So role on today and still of work with some random skin pealing thing going on with my hands, doctor advised i have 1 more week of work for my hands to recover, provide work with anouther doctors note and my manager turns around and says this "Seems as you have been off for nearly a month now i'm going to need a full doctors report"

I agreed there and then but now that i have thought about it do i really need to provide this? they know the basic's, i provided the doctors note so do i have to provide a full doctors report? i dont fancy them knowing everything that went on!

Thanks

[Unique]

they can ask for it, but need your permission to proceed

if you don't give your permission they may make a decision based on your employment without this information, which means if you don't give permission your employment may end

if you have been off for genuine reasons it's usually a good idea to agree to the report. you're employer is less likely to end your employment that way

[peterb]

You may want to ask who will see the report. Medical records are confidential, (which is why your permission is required to release it|) but if you work for a large employer, they may have an occupational health dept who should be the only people to see it.

My guess is that all they want to know is that you were genuinely ill, what period of recovery you are likely to need, and your ftness for work during that period of recovery, and any longer term effects that may affect your suitability for your current role. This is part of their duty of care towards you.

[GoNz0]

i would agree but stipulate due to the sensitive nature that one person only will get to see this, and that they can read the report with you then hand it back as there is no reason for it to reside on file as its basically no ones business other than yours.

also ask who has to pay for it as they don't usually come free.

[razer121]

Well i know id much prefer not to give it to them as trust is an issue with the company, amazing that when i went in everyone knew i had been in hospital...thanks to my mananger so you can kind of see my concerns with them having a doctors report. If i have to pay then i wont be paying, work can pay if they want one that badly!

Im going to have to speak with my duty manager and exsplain it to him at least i know he wont go telling everyone! Am i able to just let them see it then take it back? my manager said he wanted it to go on my file.

[young_one]

Just on a sidenote, there is no guarantee that the Doctors office will respond, they are not obliged too. If you have given the sign sick notes in covering the whole of your absence period then it is pretty unlikely they would end you employment, it would be a certain win for yourself in a tribunal.

But I would certainly speak to your line manager or HR to confirm who will see said report before you give written permission.

[peterb]

As young_one says.

If it is a basic report that just confirms that you were admitted to hospital and only describes convalescence and follow up, and an expexted date when you will be medically fit to return to work without giving any specific medical details of the illness, then that would be (IMHO) reasonable for management ourposes.

If they want spwcific details, Iwould ask why!

[razer121]

I did ask why and he said so it can go on my report as it is now classed as long term sickness due to me being off for a month.

It's a pain the butt as i changed doctors half way through my illness, this could become an issue when gaining the full report as my new doctors still cannot access my blood results yet!

[Blitzen]

Hello all, anouther of my work related feuds...again! Anyway since the 28th i have been of work, i had to go hospital and came pretty close to death (if i hadnt had gone hospital then bye bye razer lol) So of course with this i had to get doctors notes and provide them for work.

Work has been really good and understanding, well they was when they found out i was in hospital! So role on today and still of work with some random skin pealing thing going on with my hands, doctor advised i have 1 more week of work for my hands to recover, provide work with anouther doctors note and my manager turns around and says this "Seems as you have been off for nearly a month now i'm going to need a full doctors report"

I agreed there and then but now that i have thought about it do i really need to provide this? they know the basic's, i provided the doctors note so do i have to provide a full doctors report? i dont fancy them knowing everything that went on!

Thanks

They can ask, but you can refuse.

The way any decent employer would proceed with this, is that they would send you to a private doctor paid for by the company, and you would authorise that doctor to contact your ownto get medical records and they would then make a report to your employer stating only facts that are related to your time off. You would also get to see this report before it is submitted to your employer.
Yoou can refue the above also, by not signing the forms, but there would be no reason to do this.

[Saracen]

Hello all, anouther of my work related feuds...again! Anyway since the 28th i have been of work, i had to go hospital and came pretty close to death (if i hadnt had gone hospital then bye bye razer lol) So of course with this i had to get doctors notes and provide them for work.

Work has been really good and understanding, well they was when they found out i was in hospital! So role on today and still of work with some random skin pealing thing going on with my hands, doctor advised i have 1 more week of work for my hands to recover, provide work with anouther doctors note and my manager turns around and says this "Seems as you have been off for nearly a month now i'm going to need a full doctors report"

I agreed there and then but now that i have thought about it do i really need to provide this? they know the basic's, i provided the doctors note so do i have to provide a full doctors report? i dont fancy them knowing everything that went on!

Thanks

Can they demand to see your medical records? No. They require your permission. This is covered by the Access to Medical Reports Act 1988 (AMRA).

If they wish to see a medical report, they MUST comply with that Act. That requires that you be asked for consent before they approach your doctor, and that they MUST inform you of your rights under that Act, including the right to refuse.

If you consent, you can allow the report to be sent directly to the employer, unseen by you, but you can also require (and that means insist, not just request) that you either see it first, or get a copy (and you may be charged for that).

Having seen it, you can then change your mind about access and withdraw consent. Or if you disagree with part of it, you can request (but not require) the doctor to change bits you disagree with. He may accede to that, or may not. If he does not, you may require him to attach a statement of your disagreement.

If you do give consent, the employer must notify you when the request is made to the doctor, and you MUST contact the doctor to make arrangements to see the report within 21 days of that, or the doctor can just send it. The employer also MUST notify the doctor of your intention to see the report when they make the request for the report.

That's the basic position. But there's a couple of extra things.

First, if the doctor considers that showing you (or providing you a copy) of that report may seriously harm you (mentally or physically) he may decline. And there are limitation on access in cases where certain other categories of people may have provided information, and be identifiable.

It needs to be born in mind that it isn't just AMRA that covers this, but the Data Protection Act too, and that medical information is "sensitive" information under that Act, and that it may not just be your DPA rights at stake, but other people's too.

Second, refusing access may have consequences, so you ought to think it through before just refusing. And, though the employer's right of access for employment or insurance purposes may work in your interest (allowing them to understand the situation and allow for it, or provide help, etc), it may be that that isn't what they intend, too.


It's worth remembering that "fit notes" replaced "sick notes" earlier this year, and that a "may be fit for work" option places a burden on an employer to be aware of the implications of the notes the GP adds to that, which may include light duties, changed/reduced hours, etc. It may therefore be that the "report" the employer asks for explains their concerns and the nature of the work, and merely seeks to get your doctor's views on what you can and can't do, so they can meet that burden. If there's any suggestion that you may qualify as disabled, there are further steps they may need to consider to be sure to meet their duties to make "reasonable adjustments", as dictated by the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (DDA).

In other words, much of the time, an employer will have perfectly sound reasons for wanting a report (which is different to requesting your medical records), and a lot will be determined by exactly what report they ask for, which to my mind, is a flaming good reason for insisting on at least seeing (or getting a copy of, though probably at your cost) the report before it goes to the employer.


What would I do?

1) Think hard before refusing. It may not be in my interests to do so.
2) I'd probably inquire of my boss why they want it, and exactly what they intend to ask for.
3) I'd check that they've complied with AMRA in what they've told me so far.
4) I'd probably consent but insist on seeing the report before it's sent. At that point, I could always request changes and if not happy with them, withdraw consent and stop it being sent.

[Unique]

^ good advice above

the fitnotes came in last year though, somehow in the daze of alcohol the year turned to 2011 in the last couple of weeks


usually an employer would write to the employee, ask for permission to write to seek a medical report, if they have the permission they would usually write to the employees own doctor first, and send a copy of the permission slip, that's because someones own doctor usually knows the person and their situation better than most and has access to medical history. the doc will usually then write back asking for a fee, to which the employer will pay to obtain the info, like £80 or something, the employee doesn't pay for that. then the employer sends payment for the report and waits for about a month or so for the doctor to pull his finger out his arse and put together the report, send to the employee for checking and authorisation first before sending back to the employee

as mentioned before it's a confidential document, and it's usually held on file by HR rather than someones manager. usually HR won't even show the manager or disclose much more info than the most basic (ie. back problem, no heavy lifting). usually doctors hardly put anything interesting or juicy in the reports, so nothing to worry about. doctors don't want any flack or comebacks. usually the employer will write to ask specific questions, what is wrong, how can we help them get back to work, is it a disability etc, and the doctor will do his best MP impression by avoiding giving a straight answer and just backing up what the employee has told them

if the employer is concerned about the report they have received and it is a long ongoing problem they may pay to send you to another doc for a second opinion

[abaxas]

Just a quick question.

Was the injury self inflicted? If so your employer may have grounds to change contract terms / let you go, if you are unfit to return to work.

[razer121]

Thanks for that information, alot to take! I think i will go speak with my doctor and ask him for some advice aswell,

Just to clear up no it wasn't my fault i got a really bad flu and my liver gave up, unfortunatly my orginal doctor failed to notice which ended up with me becoming dehydrated hench the new doctor. Now thats just the basics there is alot more what happened but id prefer not to say

[Andeh13]

Saracan, your knowledge never fails to amaze me! Credit to you

[Saracen]

....

the fitnotes came in last year though, somehow in the daze of alcohol the year turned to 2011 in the last couple of weeks

....

Good point. It always takes my brain a couple of weeks or three to catch up with the calendar when the year changes. The number of cheques I've written in January over the years with the wrong date on them.

For clarity, I meant earlier in the year last year, that being (IIRC) April 2010.

[Behemoth]

They tried this on with me in my old job when I was off work sick after dislocating my arm. I tried to work a few shifts, but it was not comfortable or practical working with my arm in a sling. It was so tiring aswell.

I got myself signed off sick for 2 weeks because the pain was driving me nuts and I wasn't allowed to drive either, meaning the Mrs. Behemoth at the time had to take me to work, and when she couldn't I had to use public transport.

Half way through my 2 weeks I was called up by my boss asking me to come into work to do some training that I was behind with. When I refused to do this when I got back to work they pretty much requested that I gave them permission to speak to my GP as they felt he was being unfair in signing me off for 2 weeks to recover. They got really nasty about it too saying they were going to get someone to pick me up and take me home every shift, but I was told by my GP at the time to rest the arm for a good two weeks.

I was threatened with all sorts, was told if I didn't co-operate they'd sack me and everything.

I stood my ground though and said sorry but I refuse to give permission for you to contact my GP, all he'll do is confirm a consultation took place and that he sgined me off as not fit for work for the reason stated and nothing else.

They can ask and demmand as much as they want till their blue in the face, but at the end of the day they have no right to have a report on you at all so I personally would be telling them to go take a very long walk off a short cliff.