Mind boggling!

[Kezzer]

I was just having a chat with a mate as i was intrigued about a few things.

I was chatting to my mum about religion and beliefs the other day as she wanted to know what i thought about christmas and birthdays since i was brought up as a jehovahs witness and i never got any christmases or birthdays up until i was 14 so i missed out on what every child loves as a kid. I didn't get to have any friends because of this religion too. It may sound bad but i learnt the most out of this religion. I learnt what xmas really is and what it is nowadays and ended up knowing more about the celebration then the people that celebrated it.

This obviously changed my view on everything until we get to the point where i simply can't even contemplate life itself.

My personal belief is that the bible is a guide on how to live our lives. Something or someone created us of course. If you believe in either the big bang theory or god, something, somewhere created us as we went from non-existence to existence. This is the mind boggler, try to imagine non-existence, it's impossible! So how is it we come to exist? I'm so confused! How is everything here, now?

I wouldn't be surprised if no-one posts to this thread but i just had to express myself as i'm utterly confused

[Alex]

lol, even as a Christian, I don't think you'll find much in the bible on *how* we got here, more about why and what for. Try reading Stephen Hawking, his "a brief history of time" goes into the science quite well, but I really dont think that we as humans are capable of imagining the existance of nothing, as we are limited to imagining our experience of nothing, if you see what I mean!

By the way, just for the record, I believe the big bang theory and in God, they aren't mutually exclusive!

[killgORE]

why yes.. the classic mind boggler that.

I used to consider this as a teenager, and the best I could figure of the non-existence of everything is more flashes of colour. Hard to put into words.

First imagine an explosion falling backwards into itself, and all the debris flying back to a single point. Then all I see is the colours and a loop in logic <- and EVEN I see flaws in the logic ! but this still gives me a brain fart that I can't seem to get by.

First colour I see is always black. probably because the space is black. then u consider that black is a colour. so then something i.e. black.. exists. so it flips to white. which symbolises clean.. or empty. THEN u think that white is made up of all colour, so we loop back to black. etc...

Then we consider. there could never have been nothing. because when the big bang happened. SOMETHING.. had to exist to ignite and then cause the debris. then its the colours.

DAMN you Kezzer. I forgot about my teenage ambling thoughts for years. I used to stare off at a wall and consider this crap.

Life sucks. you have some o.k. times. you have some sweet times. then you die. Is that not enough ?

[SilentDeath]

I dont belive in god or big bang. Too much missing from each.
There has to be a scientific reson even if the god theory was real... how did god exist, for example?
Well I dont remember enough to continue typing... time for sleep...





But now that we do have life, whats the point in it..?

[silent ben]

Life is about the survival of a species, so the best thing we can do is have lots of sex

Ben

[Scientist]

I agree with ben, Go with Darwin - Pro-create!

[Kezzer]

First colour I see is always black. probably because the space is black. then u consider that black is a colour. so then something i.e. black.. exists. so it flips to white. which symbolises clean.. or empty. THEN u think that white is made up of all colour, so we loop back to black. etc...

That's an interesting way of seeing it killgORE. But there's only one problem.....black isn't a colour, nor is it in the colour spectrum so technically this way of seeing it is impossible / improbable

I still believe my theory on the bible being a manual which was purposely given to us so at some point at least someone cared about our existence in the universe.

Another thing i thought of, if all this had been created in the first place then whatever started it off couldn't have been just matter. It could've been something say on the spiritual level or something not of this space and time?

This is just one crazy way of seeing things although i do believe it's quite hard to be involved in a religion in this day and age due to the amount of facts that are missing and due to the amount of facts that prove religion otherwise. We can't believe anything

[Swafe]

Life is about the survival of a species, so the best thing we can do is have lots of sex

Ben

id run with that theory

[FordPrefect]

The most perplexing of questions, Why are we here? How did we get here? and Who put us here?

I doubt anyone can ever answer this question and I get the feeling that its far more complicated than either a supreme creator just created us or the big bang/evolution.

I'm not saying what I believe as I am not too sure myself, the one thing I do believe is that the evolution and creationalism arent absolutes and you can still have one and the other at the same time.

I believe that the universe is far more complicated and interconnected that we can ever truely comprehend. I believe that relgions and science are trying to explain the unexplainable.

I believe far too many people waste too much time on the question how did we get here. And not enough on the question why are we here.

[killgORE]

and how to make life better NOW and in the future.

but to have a true understanding of something we have to observe it from the start, at various points along the timeline and then we can extrapolate from what we know to guess its end.

So BLACK isn't a colour. then there you go. i have my answer to non-existance. everything was simply a black dot.

I am off to go stare at a black dot. Ever seen a hypnotised chicken ? Slowly move its head down onto a dot on the ground, and it will a) not notice. b) forget it can move itself from the dot. so it is glued there til you move it again. THAT is the state I am gonna be in.

Hey ho... life on the farm <- i never lived on a farm.

[SilentDeath]

Well for the god theory to work, something must have been there to create god.

For us to be here now, there must always have been something before. The universe didnt just appear from nothing - that breaks physics laws.
So now we have loads of crazy theorys how the universe was made from nothing.

But before anything existed, was there time and space? or was that created with everything else.

The god theory is flawed in that god had to exist to create us, and then needed to create us from something. With the big bang theory, forgetting the part about how everything got there in the first place, there is no need for god, as everything would just fall into place without one.

"I still believe my theory on the bible being a manual which was purposely given to us so at some point at least someone cared about our existence in the universe."

It wasnt given to us, it was written by us (well the people before us) - and then most of the storys had no accuracry to the real events, and most of it was rewritten over time to reflect what the religions wanted.
If you think those people that wrote it were right, then use it as a guide to life - but remember how can you expect things written so long ago to still be right now?

And evolution did happen, how can it not have? you think god made the world a few thousand years ago, and then added things for people to find to suggest otherwise?
Well if you think like that, then god could have created you and everyon else yesterday, with fake memorys, but that would just be stupid... but just as stupid as evolution not being real.

[killgORE]

The way that god/evolutionary theory fits together best.. Is to claim that god started life on this planet - and others ? - and gave life the properties that the evolutionary theory covers.

I read a document on how modern day creationists rationalise their - IMO crazy belief - with the scientific. I don't mean your common christian. The certain sect of lunatics that believe the earth is exactly ~2000 years old <- something nuts like that.

killgORE

[TeePee]

One persons sect of lunatics is anothers salvation. Christianity itself started as a sect of lunatics. The 'God is an Alien' idea, where an alien presence seeded earth with life, is the most scientifically plausible way of mixing science and religion.

Personally I prefer not to bother. When the bible was writen, people believed the earth was flat. Religion and the facts about the origins of life are less important than faith. Learn from the wisdom of the teachings of religions rather than acceping it all as gospel (pun intended).

[Galant]

Concentrate more on the distinction between the spiritual and the physical.

The laws of physics apply to the...physical. They exist as observed and tested in the physical world in which we live. They don't however, apply to the spiritual. Now if God is a spirit - spiritual - nothing needed to create Him. Only the physical 'needs' creating.

God always was, is; what we understand of physics applies only to the physical world. That may well apply to time too. So I think there's reason enough to hold that God did not need creating.

Definitely mind boggling though.

PS - As to the Bible not being accurate etc. - It is widely accepted that the Bible is actually a very accurate historical document used and investigated by historians for years and years. Whilst there are bones of contention on certain issues, overall, I believe the consensus is that it is accurate.

The problem is too many people misconstrue the claims made by Christians about what the Bible offers, or misunderstand them. Biblical interpretation takes some thought - but it is worth it.

[Punky]

i denounced my christian upbringing about 5 years ago when i discovered science properly. i do believe Darwin had it best with his Natural Selection theory. there is so much proof for it and i can't find any REAL (i.e. not written in some little book) evidence there is a god who created it all.
then again, during one of my deep-thought sessions (read: stoned off my tits and throwing thoughts around my head), i have contemplated the existance of a supreme being, but just that nobody has found the right way to contact it. i mean, considering how much war, suffering, intolerance, pain, hunger, chavs... etc there are nowadays, how can their be a supreme and loving force or whatever?! i mean, if god was so good, we'd all be living in luxury, every single person in the world. we'd have no desires to kill, steal, inflict pain, scheme against others, invade iraq, wear burberry, etc..
i'm not saying their is a supreme being, i'm just saying that if there is, we got a long way to go before we make contact!
peace.

[directhex]

christianity isn't about religion, it isn't about spirituality. these are both things that each of us can come to explore and understand on our own levels. christianity is about a certain direction for an interpretation of what happens around us, and how to turn that into a social order. moralistic childrens' stories warped and distorted into tools of hate, and bake sales.

the bible is a suggestion on a social structure, much like the Koran, or Guru Granth Sahib. it explains the hows, whys, and wherefors of its socialstructure through the means of a potentia, a monotheistic supreme being. the "god" bit is really supplementary to the important rules laid out on social order - not steal, not to kill, not to wear underwear with 3% lycra.

does science explain everything? no

does the idea of a christian god explain everything? no

a wise man realises that he knows nothing; the only rational belief is to throw your hands in the air & say "i dunno guv'nor, but if they aren't harassing me, i won't harass them" - and this is the holy writ by which i lead my life.