Brexit New Deal/Legal Changes - Risk Still Remains

[Saracen999]

...and we cannot even have a private discussion because Saarcen999 does not allow private messages. #ThisIsSoBrexit!

Private messages are on. Several participants in this thread can attest to that.

That said, I don't really want any more Brexit discussion at the moment, and not by PM.

And, having had about 15 years of not being able to turn 'em off, I just might.

[blueball]

I tried to PM you. The forum said you have blocked PMs. Grow up FFS

http://www.sutherlandweb.co.uk/hosted/hexus.png

[Saracen999]

I tried to PM you. The forum said you have blocked PMs. Grow up FFS

Even if I had blocked PMs, there's no need fir name calling. And, by the way, it's against forum rules.

And as for PMs, I'd be well within my rights to block them. And based on the last few comments and name-calling, I don't want PMs from you.

So I'll oblige and blick you too, a list of one.

[blueball]

Another Brexiteer hiding

[blueball]

"Even if I had blocked PMs,"

You did:
http://www.sutherlandweb.co.uk/hosted/hexus.png

[Saracen999]

No, just got no interest in being called names because I asked for a link

Who the hell do you think you are?

It's got nothing to do with Brexit.

[Saracen999]

Now blocked.

And PMs restricted.

[blueball]

You have as much access to Google as I have.

[TooNice]

So, let me get this straight. MP won the right for indicative votes, something that the government was so against that it wasn't a free vote. This shows how much goodwill the government has for any alternative proposal.

Now, honestly I think it would be extremely difficult for any indicative vote to command a majority so the government may be relieved that they'll be under no pressure to consider any of them.

But even in the instance where one of the options end up with a majority, the government can still put the finger in their ear, and go "Lalala, after careful considerations to the outcome of the indicative votes would you like May's deal or not deal?" since it isn't binding?

And going by recent history, I wouldn't be too surprised if our stubborn PM just ignore everything and use this as an opportunity to run down the clock.. again.

Still, this would make some entertaining, if tragic drama from an outside perspective.

[Corky34]

...and we cannot even have a private discussion because Saarcen999 does not allow private messages. #ThisIsSoBrexit!

What the actual? What does someones PM settings have to do with Brexit, if you can't say it in public perhaps it's best not being said at all.

[peterb]

Blueball:

Members are not obliged to accept PMs apart from admin ones.

While a rant in general may occasionally be permitted, rants against members and name calling are not, and therefore (with some regret) I have suspended your membership.

[badass]

Blueball:

Members are not obliged to accept PMs apart from admin ones.

While a rant in general may occasionally be permitted, rants against members and name calling are not, and it (with some regret) that I have suspended your membership.

And this is the biggest problem with Brexit and possibly the internet as a whole. So many people simply don't have the self control or ability to see from the other person's point of view.

They cannot accept the other person might have some legitimate reasons for their point of view and where there are grey areas, they may actually have a point.

They cannot accept that whilst they have a right to an opinion, they do not have a right to have it heard by others. People have a right to ignore just as much as people have a right to an opinion.

This polarisation has cost both Saracen his admin rights and seemingly now Blueball's membership.

This is like a tiny example of wider problems. Not only are we in an Eternal September (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September) but that with bells and whistles and a whole load of additional angry people thrown into the mix.

Remember back in the time when people went to the pub to socialise and it was normal to be friends with people that held diametrically opposing viewpoints?

peterb, I don't envy your position. Particularly as a moderate.

[Saracen999]

And this is the biggest problem with Brexit and possibly the internet as a whole. So many people simply don't have the self control or ability to see from the other person's point of view.

They cannot accept the other person might have some legitimate reasons for their point of view and where there are grey areas, they may actually have a point.

They cannot accept that whilst they have a right to an opinion, they do not have a right to have it heard by others. People have a right to ignore just as much as people have a right to an opinion.

This polarisation has cost both Saracen his admin rights and seemingly now Blueball's membership.

This is like a tiny example of wider problems. Not only are we in an Eternal September (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September) but that with bells and whistles and a whole load of additional angry people thrown into the mix.

Remember back in the time when people went to the pub to socialise and it was normal to be friends with people that held diametrically opposing viewpoints?

peterb, I don't envy your position. Particularly as a moderate.

Just for clarity's sake, it didn't cost me my admin rights. Or at least, not directly.

I stood down. Did it myself. There several reasons, but basically, it'd been brewing for several years. I'd suggested it three or four times over the last two or three years, and well before Brexit, and let myself get talked out of it but truthfully, it was time and enough was enough.

Partly, well, I'm not getting any younger. Partly, I could do without the hassle of never knowing when I was going to have to deal with something like this. Partly it was other things going on in my life.

Partly, it was .... I'd just had enough. This little incident reinforces that. I can just "ignore" and walk away.




But leaving all that aside, I entirely agree with the general thrust of your comment. The whole Brexir thing is hugely divisive, to the point of even tearing political parties apart.

But here's the problem .... what can be done about it? I don't think anything can be.

In part, it's a binary issue, not subject to shades of grey, of compromise. Either we leave, or we don't. Whatever we do, those supporting the other side aren't going to like it. And pretty soon, we are going to be in one of three situations :-

- we've left, and no matter what, Remainers are going to be furious, or
- gov'/MP's somehow fudge it up, and we are still in, whereupon Leavers will go through the roof, or
- they come up with some half-assed compromise, and everybody is going to go nuts.

Or possibly, fourth option ....

- they kick the can down the road and we're at each other's throats for two or more further years, and then .... right back in this mess again.

I can't see any way out that isn't going to leave an awful lot of people very, very angry, and what trust we did have in politicians very badly damaged, and for a very long time. Worse even than that is that trust in the actual system, not just the specific people, is (I think) now irreversible. The spell's been broken and we've all seen the Emporor 's New Clothes for what they are - simple illusion.

[Ttaskmaster]

This polarisation has cost both Saracen his admin rights and seemingly now Blueball's membership.

Nothing cost Mr Saracen his admin rights. He himself decided to step down a while back, for his own reasons. Nothing to do with anyone else. I believe he even posted a thread about it.

[Saracen999]

"Even if I had blocked PMs,"

You did:
http://www.sutherlandweb.co.uk/hosted/hexus.png

That you were getting a message I don't doubt, But I have been getting PMs from others.

But either way, accepting PMs or not is EVERY members choice, except

1) You cannot block mods/admins
2) As a mod/admin, you cannot block them at all.

PART of my reason for standing down was not having the sheer volume of PMs, and I've had literally thousands, and also for not putting up with the (far, far fewer) abusive ones.

In any event, you don't have a right to PM me or call me names if you can't.

If you'd simply said "Tried to PM and can't" I'd have had a look and maybe found what's going on with an account I set up about 5 years ago purely as an admin back door in case of trouble, account hacks, etc.

Nobody, absolutely nobody, was or indeed still is indididually blocked, but I do now have PM's restricted to mods and contacts. And not many contacts. Anyone that feels the need to be added, let me know.



What's so sad is that Corky and others, and I, who I feel safe to say aren't exactly on the same page Brexit-wise at least, have had such a long and polite discussion, without resorting to abuse.

[stevie lee]

Or possibly, fourth option ....

- they kick the can down the road and we're at each other's throats for two or more further years, and then .... right back in this mess again.

well, with the amount of potholes in our roads these days, maybe the can has got stuck in a deep one and in trying to get it out again, everyones different ideas of how to get a can out a pot hole have bent the can so out of shape its firmly wedged into the hole in the road, that the only way out is to dig up the entire road, relay the tarmac and get a new person kicking the can.

but then they might get stuck in the freshly laid tarmac because they started kicking it too soon when the surface hadn't set solid yet, and they end up in an even stickier situation than we are now.
so the only way out of that is to detach themselves from the road in someway. like getting on a bike and scarpering.


maybe Cameron had the right idea all along..