P2P filesharing, the rights and wrongs

[Knoxville]

It really doesn't cost that much to record some songs in a studio... I don't think it would kill them off, the little bands that is, besides, the less popular the band the more likely it is you won't find them on the internet to download...

Recording sessions cost an ass load if you want it done right.

[iMc]

It cost a band I know over £5000 to record an album. Thats THEIR money not from label or anything. Then you have the costs of producing the CD and getting it printed and in the shops...

[Saracen]

EDIT: I just remembered, if you own an orignal copy of a CD or DVD, say, then it is legal to download it because you already own it. Effectively it's a (legal) backup copy. Since it's impossible to prove whether you own an original or not, downloading is effectively legal. It's the distributing that's illegal.

That's not true - or at least, in the UK it isn't (bearing in mind this is an international board).

Creating a copy of a copyrighted work, without permission from the copyright owner, is illegal (though not necessarily criminal), unless your copy is permitted by one of the statutory exemptions in the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 or is permissable by virtue of some other overriding legislation. If the CD or DVD is computer software, then you can make "necessary backup" if you are a lawful user, because section 8 of the The Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992 amended the CDPA 1988 specifically to allow this.

That backup provision does not extend to audio or video CDs or DVDs.

[starside]

What about filesharing media which is not available to purchase?

I refer to TV programmes which have been broadcast and are not available to buy. For example, what if I downloaded an episode of the 10 o'clock news, or an episode of Eastenders?

Although you are allowed to time shift (i.e the basis of VCR), what if I archived it forever?

[oshta]

What about filesharing media which is not available to purchase?

I refer to TV programmes which have been broadcast and are not available to buy. For example, what if I downloaded an episode of the 10 o'clock news, or an episode of Eastenders?

Although you are allowed to time shift (i.e the basis of VCR), what if I archived it forever?

With regared to TV progs, i think its alowed as long as you have a current TV leisence when you watch it (thats certainly the case for VCR)

[Zak33]

Hexus spends alot of time effort and money on its image, profile, graphics, reviews, hardware and content.

If smeone copied it all, P2P'd it and loads of other people set it up, for their own use, with no money coming to us, we'd be GUTTED....and we'd sue.

Now, simple fact of the matter is this: If you don't like paying full price for a CD or a Film, buy it a month later second hand. If you can't find it second hand, maybe you're gonna have to pay for it after all.

Houses in the UK are seriously expensive. Doesn't mean that if yuo fancy one, you just steal one, does it? Nope.

If you can't afford to by and legaly and safely run a car of your own, doesn't mean its ok to "borrow" your neighbours keys and use it when they aren't..without their permission.

Now simple facts for you:

If everyone stopped buying brand new CD's in the UK for about 6 months, the prices would drop.

But thousands of people would lose their jobs, shops would close, HMV/Virgin etc would suffer bady, lorry drivers would not be distributing the disks, warehouses would suffer etc.

You see, we live in the UK....we are one of the wealithiest nations on the globe. The very FACT that each of you is using a PC (over half of you on Broadband) points out that you CAN afford it.

You just don't want to.

And you won't DIE if you don't get the latest albums. You're legs won't be amputated, or your hair all fall out.

Now no one likes paying £12 for a silver disk....well...least they don't until the fall in love with the album. And THEN its a most prized possession, isn't it?

P2P is a kinda funny thing. Its not illega in itself. If I had a really cool spreadsheet and you wanted it, P2P would be ideal to share it amongst you all. But IF my spreadsheet had taken me 3 years of my life to perfect and it would make all your lives better, I'd be gutted to find that only a few had SOLD and the rest were being ripped off.

I'd have the Police round too....sorry

[starside]

I'd have the Police round too

So would I, and so would everyone else - FACT.

I would like to hear from anyone who agress with filesharing, who would be willing to let their work get copied for free without recieving any payment.

All file sharers are just hipocrites in that respect.

[unrealrocks]

Shouldn't this move to Question time?

First off - the cost of the studio, then the mixing and mastering costs aren't the highest for a band, the highest cost is the intial production of the disks - and promotion of the album, although this isn't usually paid for by the band, its paid for by the record company - hence why its them who are getting pissed.

Has anyone been watching various newsfeeds (can't post where I saw it unfortunately), about various ideas that are surfacing to totally revolutionise the music industry. One was to put a tax on tier1 connections for tier2 ISPs for copyrighted material transfer, then use a system much like google to search for tracks and download them at a minimal cost (they said something like 5cents a track) which would basically just make normal filesharing give up as you'd have a price everone could afford and it'd be reliable and fast (unlike some peoples P2P experience). OK so it wouldn't get rid of sharing of TV shows and promo copys - or cams of films, but its a good start.

[Zak33]

I've bought about 3 albums in my life, I just download albums using BitTorrent and stick them on my Mp3 player/keep them on my pc.

So...Michael from Blackpool, who's IP I have....its ok to have all that music without paying for it is it?

[5lab]

to answer an earlier question, yes it IS illigal to lend a mate a cd. it may also (depending on how you read it) be illigal to have a few mate over to watch a dvd with you..

since getting a ugc pass i've not downloaded a single movie thats been shown at my local cinema - for those who dont know, a ugc pass entitles you to watch any film, at any time, at any ugc cinema, for £10/month - thats nothing imo, and it means i get to see better quality films on a better screen, with more atmosphere, etc etc. if i enjoy a film in the cinema, i will wait for it to cost less than £9 on dvd before buying it - every dvd seems to come down to this price sooner or later, so i wait.

i do still download mp3s and tv shows. the shows, because a lot of very good stuff (that 70s show, house (excellent that is), lost (again, better than anything over here)) has at the moment no plans to be shown here. other shows (viva la bam, pimp my ride etc), i like to see a few months before they are shown over here, but i don't really see how this is hurting anyone.

the only films i download are bike/surf films, both of which are, in my opinion, ludicrously priced normally - they average about £20 each, and are nearly always under an hour long - its simply not worth that much to me. if i couldnt download them then i wouldnt watch them, so i dont see how i'm hurting those guys.

finally mp3s. i download them, because i use an mp3 player for all my music (one in my car, a portable one for walking, a wireless mp3 radio in my bedroom for tunes streamed from my pc, and my pc when i'm working), and i never use cds. that said, i often suggest cds for bday/crimbo pressies to people, if they are from bands i really like, even if i wont use them. if cds were only a fiver each i would probably buy 1 a week, but at teh current price its just not wroth it in my eyes. as for downloading hurting the music market, i would say i have gotten into 90% of the bands i like thru mp3s - as a result of which i will buy the cd or see them live. i dont have the spare cash to 'risk it' on a band i dunno, so downloading is benefiting bands from me..

will i stop? no. i will carry on the same way. i dont believe i'm doing anything immorral, so im not gonna stop.

[directhex]

That's not true - or at least, in the UK it isn't (bearing in mind this is an international board).

Creating a copy of a copyrighted work, without permission from the copyright owner, is illegal (though not necessarily criminal), unless your copy is permitted by one of the statutory exemptions in the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 or is permissable by virtue of some other overriding legislation. If the CD or DVD is computer software, then you can make "necessary backup" if you are a lawful user, because section 8 of the The Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992 amended the CDPA 1988 specifically to allow this.

That backup provision does not extend to audio or video CDs or DVDs.

and i thought i'd need to point this out.

remember kids, these laws also mean it's illegal to rip cd to mp3 to play on $ipod, without written consent from the copyright holder

With regared to TV progs, i think its alowed as long as you have a current TV leisence when you watch it (thats certainly the case for VCR)

the copyright designs & patents act has a specific clause to allow for time-shifting of tv shows recorded from cable, satelite or aerial - but not to record for archival purposes, nor to obtain by means other than personally making the recording

[directhex]

have to say, one that annoys me the most is how hard it is to get some material legally.

i like to watch cartoons. can i pay disney hard-earned cash for dvds of Duck Tales? no, i can't, they won't let me

i like music videos. can i pay the record labels hard-earned cash for DVDs of the videos i like? rarely

i like obscure live performances of some bands. can i pay whoever has decided they own the copyright on that particular night (i.e. clearchannel) for a recording? almost certainly no

i like music. am i going to buy "copy-protected" cds designed to only play on windows adfter installing unstable replacement cd drive drivers? no, i don't even use windows. am i going to buy tracks which only play in windows media player 14 for a period of 3.4 hours? no. perhaps part of why file sharing is getting so popular is that the product is in many cases simply better.

[iMc]

i like music. am i going to buy "copy-protected" cds designed to only play on windows adfter installing unstable replacement cd drive drivers? no, i don't even use windows. am i going to buy tracks which only play in windows media player 14 for a period of 3.4 hours? no. perhaps part of why file sharing is getting so popular is that the product is in many cases simply better.

I TOTALLY agree on that point.

[nichomach]

Something that annoys me about audio discs (aside from the price) is that the record labels seem very keen on THEIR legal rights, but don't seem to have any objection to passing off copy-protected audio discs which break the Red Book standard as CDs when they're not, and music stores seem only too happy to connive in this. I don't condone illegal downloading or filesharing, and this idea that "I don't want to pay for it, so it's OK to steal it" is just specious rationalising of an act that people know is wrong. But when is somebody going to call the record labels to account for shipping goods which they KNOW will not work as CDs, but which they ALSO know will be sold as such and be assumed to be such?

[Zak33]

Something that annoys me about audio discs (aside from the price) is that the record labels seem very keen on THEIR legal rights, but don't seem to have any objection to passing off copy-protected audio discs which break the Red Book standard as CDs when they're not, and music stores seem only too happy to connive in this.

and THATS a good point....bloody well made. Itsa silver disk witha compressed music track on it, but it sure as HELL aint a CD. And if you scratch it, it is normally knackered, where as a few years ago, CD's could put up with all osrts of agro, because the red Book Standard held loads of spare info.

Direct Hex first intro'd me to this situation.....a CD is not always a CD.

Drives me MAD now

[directhex]

http://apebox.org/index.php?section=...nts/music.rant for my own personal rant on the topic of copy protected moozak