Firefox-its doing my head in

[mcmiller]

opera is much better than firefox and ie tbh, it has email,irc and torrents built in now so u dont have to mess around with loads of apps

[Splash]

You know what the big rule about all-in-ones is dontcha? They never do any of those things as well as apps designed specifically for the purpose, and generally troubleshooting problems with them is a 'mare.

I tried Opera (yes, latest version) and just found it clunky as hell, so back to FF for me. I use IE7 at work due to the stupid design of some of the webapps just not working in anything else, but that's out of need rather than choice. That said I am rather impressed that MS have taken on board criticism and made a rather nice interface for a browser.

[mike_w]

You know what the big rule about all-in-ones is dontcha? They never do any of those things as well as apps designed specifically for the purpose, and generally troubleshooting problems with them is a 'mare.

Hmmm... well, I would consider Firefox and Thunderbird to be the best Internet browser and e-mail client respectively. I used to use them, but then I swapped to Seamonkey. E-mail is essentially identical, while web browsing is, dare I say it, slightly better (largely due to not installing Flash in Seamonkey, I just bring up Firefox on the occasions that I actually want Flash. But I probably prefer Seamonkey now anyway.)

[mmh]

copy and paste? works for moi...

I thought this was going to be about the css in firefox.. gah! how i hate it for that.. you get a site all hunky dory in IE and then it looks like a mess... and "ooh!" some may say... its not firefox its IE thats the problem.. No! No! its firefox... i checked it on the net.. some wierd thing about widths..

IE does have some problems too though

FIREFOX doesnt interpret widths the same, like for ecample, percentages dont always work with FF. but do in IE, also, stuff like margins on divs, they add on in FF, they work inside the div width in IE.

just stuff that comes with practise... also font sizes are different, the easiest way around this is to use Strict code instead of transitional in the doctype label.

I had to learn all this the hard way, and im still learning, but as everything my company does has to be compliant and css valid, and still look good, its stuff that had to be learnt.

[yamangman]

FIREFOX doesnt interpret widths the same, like for ecample, percentages dont always work with FF. but do in IE, also, stuff like margins on divs, they add on in FF, they work inside the div width in IE.

just stuff that comes with practise... also font sizes are different, the easiest way around this is to use Strict code instead of transitional in the doctype label.

I had to learn all this the hard way, and im still learning, but as everything my company does has to be compliant and css valid, and still look good, its stuff that had to be learnt.

Why would specifying a different HTML DTD alter the way the CSS is rendered?

[BEANFro Elite]

Well Firefox also got on my nerves and now I use IE6 and Opera 8.54 excellent combination.

I stick to my guns about my opnion of Firefox being an overrated pile of pocket fluff.

IE7 will be a force to reckon with when it officially rears its head as it'll have tabbed browsing and all that fancy pantsery

[directhex]

FIREFOX doesnt interpret widths the same, like for ecample, percentages dont always work with FF. but do in IE, also, stuff like margins on divs, they add on in FF, they work inside the div width in IE.

just stuff that comes with practise... also font sizes are different, the easiest way around this is to use Strict code instead of transitional in the doctype label.

I had to learn all this the hard way, and im still learning, but as everything my company does has to be compliant and css valid, and still look good, its stuff that had to be learnt.

then you'd know which of the two is following the W3 CSS rendering rules more closely. for some odd reason, something which looks spot on in gecko also looks fine in khtml, webcore and presto, yet will look wrong in trident. i wonder why that is.

[Spud1]

Well Firefox also got on my nerves and now I use IE6 and Opera 8.54 excellent combination.

I stick to my guns about my opnion of Firefox being an overrated pile of pocket fluff.

IE7 will be a force to reckon with when it officially rears its head as it'll have tabbed browsing and all that fancy pantsery

each to their own...IE6 works as a browser for most people, the security holes don't worry me too much, and it's true that many websites look and render faster in IE - although that tends to be down to poor coding.

I like FF as a browser mainly for its bookmarks toolbar (the only toolbar I have ever used) and tabbed windows. The thottbot search plugin is also useful My main issue wtih it is CSS, and also how exchange server is presented in it. No where near as slick as the IE one.

Opera? I don't like it, as has been mentioned it feels rather 'clunky' to me, and I definitely think it is a case of 'jack of all trades master of none'. The fact that it now includes torrent support just forces it lower in my eyes..encouraging piracy now (or maybe using BitTorrents popularity with the proles as a way to boot Opera's user base??)

IE7 is a serious contender to FF, but only when used in Vista. In XP it just doesn't work, it looks totally wrong, and needs some serious re-skinning to make it fit in. Vista all has the same stupid menu bar system so it fits in well there

[Splash]

My main issue wtih it is CSS, and also how exchange server is presented in it. No where near as slick as the IE one.

The great thing about standards is that you can have so many. Sadly the reason CSS works for IE is that people in general write for IE, not the standard.

As for the way Exchange server is presented I assume you mean OWA 2003? That'll be because in IE it can make use of activex...

I don't want to sound like a FF fanboy as there are way too many of them out there, but the reason a lot of things work better for IE is that they are developed specifically for IE, and pants to the rest of the world.

[BEANFro Elite]

Pah, to me its not how it looks, its how it performs, IE6 is a great performer in my opinion.

It seems the only reason people gave me to use Firefox over IE6 and Opera were that it is highly customisable and is more secure.

Opera has a smaller userbase than firefox hence has less hackers and IE since the SP2 updates and fixes really HAS gotten a lot more secure, if not more then on a par with Firefox.

The reason IE6 is so bog standard etc. is because the minute they put features on it that are overly useful they'll get an anti-competition lawsuit, god only knows how MS will get away with IE7 without being accused of anti-competition

I think people should just say which browsers exist give links to them all and say to people you choose, because there is no real difference between them all.

[BEANFro Elite]

I don't want to sound like a FF fanboy as there are way too many of them out there, but the reason a lot of things work better for IE is that they are developed specifically for IE, and pants to the rest of the world.

You also forgot to point out that, everyone who has Windows also has the potential to use IE6

In my experience, this is the case many of ur common or garden Windows users probably haven't heard of the other browsers and if they do, they don't bother getting them because IE6 just does the job.

That said, Opera has a "submit a website" style function and Firefox has its large and pro-active community to make plugins to make some websites that are designed for IE6 work in Firefox.

[Spud1]

As for the way Exchange server is presented I assume you mean OWA 2003? That'll be because in IE it can make use of activex...

Yeah I did mean OWA2003 Should have specified it better. FF can use ActiveX though (albeit via a 3rd party plugin), for example logmein.com uses activeX as one method for accessing your PC - works fine in FF

[yamangman]

then you'd know which of the two is following the W3 CSS rendering rules more closely. for some odd reason, something which looks spot on in gecko also looks fine in khtml, webcore and presto, yet will look wrong in trident. i wonder why that is.

Oh come on. I'd suggest KHTML is worse then trident.

[yamangman]

...No where near as slick as the IE one...

Clear case of "born on windows".

[directhex]

Oh come on. I'd suggest KHTML is worse then trident.

KHTML has come along an astonishing amount in the past couple of years, and these days is more compliant than Gecko - apple seem pleased enough with it as the basis for Webcore

[Spud1]

Clear case of "born on windows".

Explain that please...taken out of context I can see where you are coming from - but that phrase was talking about the difference between how IE and FF displays Outlook Webaccess 2003. I only really use windows while at work and gaming (well BF2, i can play wow on my mac). Everything else I do with my mac, so please don't label me as 'born on windows'

Just to prove my point about the difference, here are two screenshots:

IE: http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3315/ie6aa.jpg
FF: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/599/ff5nd.jpg

I would guess that the differences are something to do with IE being allowed to use activeX (I _think_ it uses it, although can't confirm) while FF cannot. This is a bit stupid as firefox can support activeX controls (if you install a 3rd party extension to allow this). Not unexpected though as obviously MS will want to force people to use IE wherever possible..