Microsoft says you won't be able to swerve Windows 11 min specs

[Tabbykatze]

As a security first person (in general), I am happy to welcome Secure Boot (and in essence, TPM) now being part of minimum spec.

I have been using Win 11 both as my daily driver as an IT Manager and at home testing and getting ready for the inevitable roll forwards of my 80 endpoints to Win 11 when we're ready (mid-late 2022 is my expectation).

Frankly, they have taken a fair bit of care to resolve the issues that have plagued both Win 8 and Win 10, it's been an enjoyable and satisfying experience. They have sorted out many things that have irked me in the past and their settings layer is getting closer to me no longer directly accessing the .cpl windows instead. I'm also excited at kernel level Android and next gen WSL2 (with consideration both are a huge security risk).

And just like 7/8 to 10, it'll be a free upgrade. I have not paid for Windows and have licensed copies of it in over 7 years at home (with the exception of the wifes PC as I ran out of keys and was a december build last year).

I think Microsoft has evolved strongly and quite positively under Satyas leadership, they are focusing on their core strengths and expanding both Windows and their other integrations into alternative platforms at a rate that makes Ballmers balls itch horrifically (i would expect). They are also now one of the largest contributors to Linux as well and they are taking those development and design edicts back to their main platform.

I get what the warring parties here say, I simply just don't agree and I suppose to some extent...don't care.

[3dcandy]

Corky - my point exactly. Since posting about how the major businesses around here are already saying they're going Win 11 my wifes company has emailed her to announce that her company laptop is going to be replaced next year sometime with a new HP laptop and Win 11.
Her company is the largest company involved in Government schemes for things like assisted learning, grants for students and disabilities.
They have announced that they will stop supporting students buying most other OS's other than Win 10 for September and moving onwards Win 11 to help streamline support queries and reduce issues caused by fragmentation and because Windows is the dominant platform. This year so far they have supported 150,000 students with Windows hardware and expect the figure to rise to nearly 200k next year whilst themselves they are expecting circa 50k machines using Win 11 next year in their business.
This is the reality I am talking about...

[3dcandy]

I used to think that but these days I'm not so sure. The old days when Linux users needed to understand all sorts of command line er... commands, and switches, are pretty much gone and installing and using Linux entirely via GUI isn't that hard for most users. Most non-power users won't need command line any more than most people will run command line instuctions in admin mode on a Windows machine. There's a pretty good spread of competent (and free) Linux software for most application purposes too. Granted, that might not suit bigger businesses, and perhaps smaller ones too, but quite a lot of home users could switch without anything like as much of a learning curve as they probably think. No more, really, than switching between Win and Apple machines.

Point taken - but EVERY business I know who is large enough to say they are going to Win 11 is going to use Office 365 and Onedrive. This is where MS makes the real money - these users are already on Office 365 and onedrive for their needs and will just continue to do so

[Corky34]

I used to think that but these days I'm not so sure. The old days when Linux users needed to understand all sorts of command line er... commands, and switches, are pretty much gone and installing and using Linux entirely via GUI isn't that hard for most users. Most non-power users won't need command line any more than most people will run command line instuctions in admin mode on a Windows machine. There's a pretty good spread of competent (and free) Linux software for most application purposes too. Granted, that might not suit bigger businesses, and perhaps smaller ones too, but quite a lot of home users could switch without anything like as much of a learning curve as they probably think. No more, really, than switching between Win and Apple machines.

True but IMO there's a rather large gulf between just using it and being what I'd consider an expert, the sort of middle ground of hobbyist users. For example to disable a task scheduler task, services, or driver in Windows is super easy for me personally, on Linux i don't even know where to start looking for what tasks, services, or drivers get loaded let alone how to disable them. I mean for a i use my computer to run programs and i don't care what's going on in the background type person I'd say Linux is actually better than Windows, however for anyone that wants to fiddle with things you can get into trouble really easily, really quickly.

Corky <snip>

True and what i said was more or less based on what I've heard people in the US/Canada saying (iirc Linus mentioned something about Chromebooks being ubiquitous in schools on last weeks podcast), maybe the UK is lagging behind a bit or Google isn't pushing Chromebooks into classrooms outside the US/Canada, IDK.

[Saracen999]

Point taken - but EVERY business I know who is large enough to say they are going to Win 11 is going to use Office 365 and Onedrive. This is where MS makes the real money - these users are already on Office 365 and onedrive for their needs and will just continue to do so

I know some, including some very big ones, that don't. And some modestly sized ones that don't too, or at least, don't for many of their staff, not least because they don't use 365, or want to. I switched a couple of my cliens over to OpenOffice, a good 10 years ago, because they were averse to multiple MS Office upgrade licences for their very limited use of WP and spreadsheets. So I set the boss up with OpenOffice. He tried it for a few weeks, and switched all their PCs to it, because not only did he baulk at version licences but when we later discussed 365 he had no interest at all in pay-monthly. No, they weren't heavy users, and didn't use team and/or collaboration type features either. They weren't that kind of company.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I know some, including some very big ones, that don't. And some modestly sized ones that don't too, or at least, don't for many of their staff, not least because they don't use 365, or want to. I switched a couple of my cliens over to OpenOffice, a good 10 years ago, because they were averse to multiple MS Office upgrade licences for their very limited use of WP and spreadsheets. So I set the boss up with OpenOffice. He tried it for a few weeks, and switched all their PCs to it, because not only did he baulk at version licences but when we later discussed 365 he had no interest at all in pay-monthly. No, they weren't heavy users, and didn't use team and/or collaboration type features either. They weren't that kind of company.

Its no point talking to them as they are so emOtionally vested with MS - you can see by their defence of everything MS doing as fine repeatedly. The same people gushing praise on every aspect of Windows 11,like they did with every other Windows OS in the past,and saying any criticism is unwarranted. You see that at every MS launch,massive defence of anything MS does.

People did the same thing with criticisms of Vista/8/8.1,and said it was all about business,this,that and the other. Yet as everyone saw,Vista/8/8.1 were disasters. They won't accept anything MS does is wrong. The reality they are older people who can't change or see change.

The fact is they have increasingly ignored criticisms from their users,their own testers,etc and rely on believing their own bumpf.

But the difference no amount of spin,changes the fact MS is in decline in a massively expanding tech market. In the last decade they went from being bigger than their competitiors,being ahead in so many areas to falling behind. These people's "faith" and "belief" in MS is admirable,but they are increasingly retreating to less and less segments.

Remember,people have to look at relative numbers.

Apple was smaller than MS,10 and 20 years ago but it is massively larger. Google was less than half the size of MS and is now bigger,despite its own missteps.

Amazon,which start as a BOOK SHOP,now does tech services and has taken share from MS. For a company which had the position and dominance MS had 10 years ago,a lot of this should not have happened. But it did happen,under multiple CEOs.

Apple,Google and Amazon who were exclusively software companies,now are starting to develop their own custom hardware(Apple ARM,AWS Graviton,etc).MS tried AFAIK and flailed around.

Then you have all the competition from Asia which is starting to grow. Like IBM its a slow death by a 1000 cuts. Yet absolute faith its all going to all work out.

They seem to not see that all these companies are brutal - and MS has been slowly retreating from every encounter. The parallels with IBM are uncanny(and even to a degree what is happening with Intel).

MS had a massive hold on the PC market,they were on touchscreen phones before their competitors,inroads into enterprise,etc. They even bought Nokia,who was a company which made great mobile phone hardware,and even managed to run them into the ground. They could even get the software right for a phone. But in the consumer market,competitors coming from zero are owning them. Even in gaming which you think they would have a good chance of also owning(with Windows being the main PC platform),they lost ground to Sony/Nintendo. Then all of them lost ground to mobile games,which make as much revenue as PC/consoles combined. Who gets a chunk of that - Apple/Google because its on their own platforms.

Can you imagine the amount of revenue they have just handed to their competitors? Now they are relying on conservative business users,but that is not going to last for ever. Like I said the US military now uses Android/iOS devices in certain critical areas. If the military are OK with using Apple/Google devices that needs to sink in. Military standards are much higher than most business/enterprise standards.

In other market multiple competitors are chipping away from them. They are essentially now relying on Office 365,e-mail,teams,etc to hold up their bottom line. Essentially getting closer and closer to a one trick pony.

Do people really think huge competitors out there,are just going to allow MS to provide services to their OSes for the next 10 years. Do they think their shareholders are going to allow this??

These companies have taken every low/medium hanging fruit they can from MS. They are increasingly attacking MS from every other angle.

The reality is people never could see what happened with IBM. IBM in the late 70s to mid 80s had it all. Within 10 years you saw what happened - people who keep talking about how much they know,they are utterly oblivious to the last 40 years of the tech industries they work in. They should talk to some of their predecessors from the 70s/80s.

People said the same of IBM in the mid 80s,,and yet within 10 years you saw what happened. Did anyone in 1985 predict the upstart MS would be the main force in PC,by 1995. I think not.

People said the same of Intel 5~7 years ago,despite increasingly cracks being seen and yet within 5 years you saw what happened. See all the Intel defenders,who defended Intel's tierisation as good business,you never needed more than four cores,you will never get fired for buying Intel,Intel was a fab leader,etc. Sure Intel is making money,but the reality they are loosing their edge and it was quite clear things were not right even back then. AMD coming along,new ARM competitors arriving,TSMC in ascendence(due to Apple helping fund their nodes),etc.

Considering how long you worked in the tech industry for a very long time,and the people you have met,etc you can see the trends too.

[Corky34]

Its no point talking to them as they are so emOtionally vested with MS - you can see by their defence of everything MS doing as fine repeatedly. The same people gushing praise on every aspect of Windows 11,like they did with every other Windows OS in the past,and saying any criticism is unwarranted. You see that at every MS launch,massive defence of anything MS does.

To be fair i think that's an American/Microsoft thing, it's why i asked 3dcandy if they had any form of Microsoft certification. When i sat my MCSE 20 odd years ago i discovered they frown on anyone who brings up any negatives, i can't remember exactly what it was but when i raised something negative with a tutor he got very perturbed, insisting we're hear to learn, not discuss problems. It wasn't until he realised i wasn't being critical of him or Microsoft but trying to better understand things that he went into more details and helped me to understand things better.

That's not to knock Microsoft certification BTW as any of it is a great string to add to your bow, like all education, however Microsoft certification, like all/most IT certification, is not just about learning. It's also about having evangelists out in the world supporting your product both in terms of IT support and championing your product when company X is deciding on who or what to use.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

To be fair i think that's an American/Microsoft thing, it's why i asked 3dcandy if they had any form of Microsoft certification. When i sat my MCSE 20 odd years ago i discovered they frown on anyone who brings up any negatives, i can't remember exactly what it was but when i raised something negative with a tutor he got very perturbed, insisting we're hear to learn, not discuss problems. It wasn't until he realised i wasn't being critical of him or Microsoft but trying to better understand things that he went into more details and helped me to understand things better.

That's not to knock Microsoft certification BTW as any of it is a great string to add to your bow, like all education, however Microsoft certification, like all/most IT certification, is not just about learning. It's also about having evangelists out in the world supporting your product both in terms of IT support and championing your product when company X is deciding on who or what to use.

It happened here too. I remember it back on the forums - it was quite clear Vista/8/8.1 had issues,and the same with a number of their other endeavours. But you always had people say "look at the bigger picture",etc and so on. MS will prevail! Its the same with anything MS does,at every launch you get people just pointing out the "brilliant" MS strategy,and any criticism is people "not getting it" because MS is great and forward looking. Its the same with Windows 11 - the same gushing praise,no criticisms are valid,etc. They know best - deal with it. Yet,when you show the same people that MS has stumbled so many times,and had so many problems,they can't deal with it. The irony.

Like I said just look at Intel 5~7 years ago,and how people were praising them. Yet the cracks were starting to slowly appear even back then.

They are such a forward looking company,that they are already outsourced a lot of business they have(and the revenue that came with it) to multiple competitors,some of which had zero foothold in the area,and some which were almost bankrupt(and that other irony they saved them) a few years before. That is in the last 10 years. So in the next 10 years,those competitors are suddenly going to just stop??

So forward looking,they have stumbled in everything. Yes the faithful will have faith it all works out.

Edit!!

Although WRT to the certifications I would imagine a fair number who have financially invested into all of that,would really want MS to be still doing the services at all costs. That includes people involved in training and those who paid for them. Like I said its the older people who lose the most from moving to new paradigms. Its part of the reason why IBM,and Intel managed to coast along for so long. In the case of Intel they could have so easily swatted out Zen/Zen+ but their hubris got the better of them - now AMD is laughing all the way to the bank. Luckily Intel has a lot of 14NM++++++++++ capacity!

There was another similar type of discussion I had years ago on here with phones. I pointed out Samsung and Apple were stagnating in smartphones,and they were stagnating on camera tech and other features. I was told it didn't matter as they made enough money and consumers didn't care. I said it would only lead to people keeping stuff longer and longer. This happened.

I pointed out the tech existed,and Chinese companies would fill the void and they would gain sales by licensing the camera tech,etc and using lower margins. People didn't believe me. Yet what I said happened. Chinese companies have a huge share of the market(there would be even more if Huawei wasn't sanctioned),that they would drive forward camera tech adoption(which would help with sales),and have equally highend models and were amongst the first with 5G - what I said happened. TBF,it happened much quicker than I ever expected. Now Samsung and Apple,have had to respond with much better devices(and Samsung has some fantastic mainstream devices because they are under intense pressure in Asia),and the price inflation has now slowed down.

Its the tech industry doing what it does. Just because you have momentum,does not preclude you loosing it if you get complacent,and take customers for granted.

Personally I don't think a few of us will ever agree about where MS is headed.

[kalniel]

It happened here too. I remember it back on the forums - it was quite clear Vista/8/8.1 had issues,and the same with a number of their other endeavours. But you always had people say "look at the bigger picture",etc and so on. MS will prevail!

I don't remember many saying that. Most of the forum stuck with 7 and then went from 7 to 10 I think. And I think that reflects a pretty common view: MS sometimes get it wrong and sometimes get it right - people don't have to fall into one of either full support or full displeasure.

Time will tell if 11 is more like 10 or more like 8. In my view there's nothing inherent to suggest it'll be more like 8, and my main gripes about incompatability/stability seem to have been something MS has worked on if recent updates are representative. But we'll see.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I don't remember many saying that. Most of the forum stuck with 7 and then went from 7 to 10 I think. And I think that reflects a pretty common view: MS sometimes get it wrong and sometimes get it right - people don't have to fall into one of either full support or full displeasure.

Time will tell if 11 is more like 10 or more like 8. In my view there's nothing inherent to suggest it'll be more like 8, and my main gripes about incompatability/stability seem to have been something MS has worked on if recent updates are representative. But we'll see.

I saw it on a few forums(reddit also) - you always had people saying MS was doing XYZ because of some great future strategy. There was a bigger picture(think it was about touch back then),even though people pointed out touch and mouse driven GUI,don't really play well with each other. The other reality is MS does what MS does ignore criticisms - IIRC with 8/8.1 they did some interesting blog posts about how they were right. But once all the critcisms,etc started to really bite they start backtracking.

Go back to Vista too. I mean even companies such as Nvidia got caught out by MS cackhanded approach to it all. There were criticisms of that too.

Look at Windows 10 - it was perfectly fine,and then suddenly they decided to just start messing around with it,and causing problems.Heck,I had updates conflict with a common Realtek audio codec. Some of these were conflicts with very common things and you would think they had some process of QA/QC to vet even common stuff out. Obviously not. Then when all the criticism happened,they had to backtrack again.

This is the whole problem with MS - instead of taking criticisms from their own customers,and their internal testers....they have people in the company who just override it and continue onwards. Then when it hits home,a backtrack. You would think by now they needed to start listening. But the issue is they keep their head in the sand about problems,until it is too hard to block it out and then they react and "fix it". Then a few months/years later its back to square one. The issue is how many times can they keep doing this?

Its not 2010 anymore - there are so many companies wanting a piece of what MS is doing.

[kalniel]

I saw it on a few forums(reddit also) - you always had people saying MS was doing XYZ because of some great future strategy. There was a bigger picture(think it was about touch back then),even though people pointed out touch and mouse driven GUI,don't really play well with each other. The other reality is MS does what MS does ignore criticisms - IIRC with 8/8.1 they did some interesting blog posts about how they were right. But once all the critcisms,etc started to really bite they start backtracking.

Look at Windows 10 - it was perfectly fine,and then suddenly they decided to just start messing around with it,and causing problems. Some of these were conflicts with very common things and you would think they had some process of QA/QC to vet even common stuff out. Obviously not. Then when all the criticism happened,they had to backtrack again.

This is the whole problem with MS - instead of taking criticisms from their own customers,and their internal testers....they have people in the company who just override it and continue onwards. Then when it hits home,a backtrack. You would think by now they needed to start listening. The issue is how many times can they keep doing this?

I think they have listened, especially to their internal testers. The compatibility testing that takes place before updates are served has vastly improved. I remember when service packs had a risk of wiping your hard drive, now the update process is better than ever and one of the smoothest across all OSen (and I run all three main varieties), despite the hardware landscape being the most diverse it's ever been.

Reddit always has very passionate people - but they are a minority (just as we are on Hexus, more so), MS has a far far larger user base and all that telemetry stuff that we love to complain about means they actually have the real evidence of what's causing issues. I've been in organisations that have served millions of users and while you do listen to individual feedback, you have to also look at the real data of what people are doing and what is going wrong.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I think they have listened, especially to their internal testers. The compatibility testing that takes place before updates are served has vastly improved. I remember when service packs had a risk of wiping your hard drive, now the update process is better than ever and one of the smoothest across all OSen (and I run all three main varieties), despite the hardware landscape being the most diverse it's ever been.

Reddit always has very passionate people - but they are a minority (just as we are on Hexus, more so), MS has a far far larger user base and all that telemetry stuff that we love to complain about means they actually have the real evidence of what's causing issues. I've been in organisations that have served millions of users and while you do listen to individual feedback, you have to also look at the real data of what people are doing and what is going wrong.

The problem is we have been here before. Windows ME,then MS kinda of being in denial,then you had 2000/XP. Then Vista,MS being in denial,then Windows 7. Then Windows 8...

The same happened with their smartphone OS,where they stubbornly stuck to pen interfaces. Then when they finally cottoned onto touch interfaces,then screwed that up and didn't listen properly. It happened with Zune,where they made a ton of mistakes.

What is MS relying on?? Legacy things such as Office suites.

That is the issue here is that MS is mostly coasting along on momentum,and a lack of alternatives. In every scenario where there has been a better alternative MS,has retreated.

The Apple M1 is a significant development not because its Apple,but because its performance profile now pushes ARM devices into Wintel territory. Part of the reason people stayed stuck to Windows was the performance considerations. But if non-Windows devices can do most of what an average consumer or business user can do,its only going to mean other OSes/companies are going to encroach onto the untouchable performance markets Windows had all to itself. It also means that other companies software will start to gain more traction.

The evidence shows the issue here. MS has fallen behind relative to its competitors in size and revenue. Apple was smaller than MS 10 years ago. Google was not even 40% of its size. Amazon was nowhere in tech services. Now see where these companies are.

I think its hard for people to look at a company like MS who makes billions,and believe it is in decline. But everyone can see Intel is in decline,and still makes billions too.

The reality is that there are 4 billion Android/iOS devices(3X that of Windows devices),and MS 10~15 years ago couldn't even hold off Google of all companies. The issue is its clear just looking at the finanicials,and emergence of other competitors,they haven't really listened to criticisms or customer feedback. The tech market has grown massively,but the fact is other companies have taken more of it than MS has achieved.

Things like this Q and A session seem similar to some of the blogs they published during the 8 era. Very self congratulatory and backpatting on how brilliant it all is.

Like some said they don't care,but its something that has been evident in the last 20 years. They have become a very reactive company. But I just think increasingly they are just chasing after others coat tails now.

Anyway,I don't think many of us are going to be in 100% agreement with all of this - we will see how things go in the next 10 years!

[Saracen999]

.... MS sometimes get it wrong and sometimes get it right - people don't have to fall into one of either full support or full displeasure.

....

Well, no. But kinda yes, too.

Ultimately, people have a choice: upgrade or don't (assuming you meet minimum requirements). At that point, you have to either accept it whether you love it or loathe it, or something in-between, or you have to come up with some solution that is not an upgrade.

I haven't yet decided whether I will or not. That might depend on whether MS stick by current minimum requirements, and I have no opinion on whether they will or not. If they do, then mostly, I can't upgrade even if I want to and I am not buying new hardware just to be able to run W11.

If I am able to upgrade, then I'll decide whether I'm going to based on what the final version does. For instance:-

- toolbar in the middle? I understand MS allow that to be over-ridden but if it can't, is it a determining factor? Probably not.

- toolbar locked to the bottom? Well, that probably is enough to get me to stick with 10 because I've been using it at the top for years, and when I have to use it at the bottom, like on someon else's machine, I loathe it. But then, even if MS say "it's fixed" some third party might do an "Ummm, no it isn't" utility and while that isn't ideal, it's probably enough for me.

And then there's everything else that isn't just relatively trivial UI issues, about which I'm seeing a few things i do like, and on the relatively little time I've spent looking, not a huge amount I don't (except toolbar locked to the bottom, which I really don't like).

Fortunately, I'm in the rather comfortable position of not much giving a stuff if I have to stay on W10 and just move those machines offline. My current guess is that I'll upgrade to 11 if I can (i.e. minimum requirements are met, which they currently are not) and if I can get my damn toolbar where I want it. Eventually. And if not, I won't. Simplez.

[Iota]

Personally I don't think a few of us will ever agree about where MS is headed.

Service provider.

Look at Windows 10 - it was perfectly fine,and then suddenly they decided to just start messing around with it,and causing problems.Heck,I had updates conflict with a common Realtek audio codec. Some of these were conflicts with very common things and you would think they had some process of QA/QC to vet even common stuff out. Obviously not. Then when all the criticism happened,they had to backtrack again.

QA for the patches and updates has been seemingly hit and miss for some users. The only thing in terms of Windows 10 that I'm critical of (for a change) is the whole update process compared to prior versions. There is a strong reasoning by me to delay updates, especially the larger ones. We've seen quite a few snafu moments on the updates, that's even with the way in which they release those updates to a smaller portion of users first, then upscale to other users.

I have to say this, Microsoft have only ever released 3 decent OS's. XP is questionable, 10 has had issues with the updates. So 7 is perhaps the most stable and also user friendly of the lot.

From an end user perspective 11 needs to address the update QA issue that has cropped up in 10. It also needs to address the multiple GUI elements when you start going back to some of the older parts of Windows and bring a more unified approach to that area. Direct Storage is about the only thing I'm seeing that seems useful to me personally. The hardware lockout aspect though is puzzling, especially when Microsoft have spent time since 7 to make installing new hardware a little more user friendly, aside from legacy hardware that some people may still want to use.

Considering the amount of users Microsoft have for their OS, you would think they would learn to take onboard the feedback they get. 11 may end up being another Windows 8 scenario, I completely skipped that one.

[matts-uk]

The problem is we have been here before. Windows ME,then MS kinda of being in denial,then you had 2000/XP. Then Vista,MS being in denial,then Windows 7. Then Windows 8...

The same happened with their smartphone OS,where they stubbornly stuck to pen interfaces. Then when they finally cottoned onto touch interfaces,then screwed that up and didn't listen properly. It happened with Zune,where they made a ton of mistakes.

When Microsoft ditched Windows 8.1 and the executives responsible, it became a different corporation. Steve Ballmer was pursuing Gates' ideological strategy of 'Windows Everywhere.' The strategy was ill conceived when it appeared in The Road Ahead in 1995 and it took them 2 decades to work it out. Nadella presents a more humble Microsoft, lead by customer need, willing to work with markets rather than try to dominate them. The share price suggests the new strategy is working. Microsoft shares stagnated for 10 years under Ballmer's leadership. The current growth rate dwarves the glory years surrounding the Y2K boom. Whether the recent success will go to their heads once again, remains to be seen.

Win ME gets a bad press because, from a customer's short term and self interested position, it was awful. To look at it from Microsoft's perspective you need to ask a question. Can we merge the Win9x and NT code base successfully without releasing ME in the interrim? My own view, back then and even now with hindsight, wonders whether merging consumer and business markets with the release of XP, may have been the greatest operational mistake Microsoft ever made. From XP onward, two very different markets were vying for attention. One of those markets is modestly sized but understands margins and the other is enormous but expects everything for nothing.

What do the disasters during the Ballmer years have in common? They were all attempts to capture mass consumer markets that failed to make any real money.

What is MS relying on?? Legacy things such as Office suites.

That is the issue here is that MS is mostly coasting along on momentum,and a lack of alternatives. In every scenario where there has been a better alternative MS,has retreated.

Tosh!

Office is one of two crucially important long term Microsoft success stories, the other being Active Directory. Both Office and AD initially entered contested markets, saw off the established incumbents and every competitor that dared challenge since. These are far from legacy applications. They are where the profit is, where the growth is and where the A team are actively developing. Each of the 365 development teams operates an active customer feedback channel, with roadmap updates most months.

Microsoft are hardly cruising on momentum when 365 is currently taking chunks out of Google's Workplace and has pretty much reduced Docs to an exercise book for school kids. Azure has taken a sledgehammer to the 7 year lead AWS built up. Teams came from nothing to severely dent Cisco WebEx and give Zoom a headache trying to convert free accounts to paid subscriptions. On the sidelines OneDrive and SharePoint are slowly becoming more integrated and already sweeping away Dropbox and the multitude of alternatives. Those are merely the core 365 licenses, in addition are a bunch of ready rolled integrations. The innovation, the USP, is hybrid, 'Cloud as well.' You can plug your on prem into the Microsoft cloud infrastructure and that is an incredibly powerful business proposition.

The Apple M1 is a significant development not because its Apple,but because its performance profile now pushes ARM devices into Wintel territory. Part of the reason people stayed stuck to Windows was the performance considerations. But if non-Windows devices can do most of what an average consumer or business user can do,its only going to mean other OSes/companies are going to encroach onto the untouchable performance markets Windows had all to itself.

The M1 chip is a problem for Intel and AMD. Microsoft are no more married to Intel than Apple were. I don't really follow the performance argument. One thing Windows never has been is quick and efficient. What keeps Windows users on Windows is prior investment in Windows. What the average user does is immaterial. For a particular Windows user to migrate from Windows, the competing platform has to deliver at least everything the user currently needs. The dependencies run deep into 3rd party territory.

The evidence shows the issue here. MS has fallen behind relative to its competitors in size and revenue. Apple was smaller than MS 10 years ago.

I think its hard for people to look at a company like MS who makes billions,and believe it is in decline. But everyone can see Intel is in decline,and still makes billions too.

The reality is that there are 4 billion Android/iOS devices(3X that of Windows devices),and MS 10~15 years ago couldn't even hold off Google of all companies. The issue is its clear just looking at the finanicials,and emergence of other competitors,they haven't really listened to criticisms or customer feedback. The tech market has grown massively,but the fact is other companies have taken more of it than MS has achieved.

Apple is not bigger than Microsoft. Microsoft employs more people but Apple make a larger margin per employee. It is similar to Samsung selling more smart phones but Apple selling more expensive smart phones. You might recall the criticism Apple attracted when Jobs insisted on eschewing the industry trend of putting market share before margins - Turns out Jobs was right to do so. The feeding frenzy for market share is what killed IBM and drove so many PC manufacturers, ISPs and software houses out of business. It was years later that HP, Dell and Lenovo came within hours of bankruptcy too, when the debt finally caught up with them.

I honestly think you are looking backwards, in the wrong direction. The breaking news is the potential regulatory challenge to personal data fed revenue models pioneered by Google, Amazon and Facebook. Apple are suffering from being run by an accountant. The M1 brings no new ideas, only a cut to the bill of materials. Apple could be entering decline already, it's hard to tell since they changed the way they report performance.

Microsoft retreating from unprofitable market sectors, I don't see that as a decline, more consolidation. Microsoft 365 and Azure is an emerging business that has a future in business solutions. The incumbents in the cloud don't have Active Directory and that leaves them defending piecemeal applications. Windows is the millstone around Microsoft's neck if anything as competing operating systems are made available free of charge. What I find surprising about Windows 11 is it did not turn out to be a GUI skin on Nix, similar to MacOS and Android. I would imagine Microsoft want to make TPM a mandatory requirement so they can track devices and licenses, rather than people and licenses as they do currently.

Things like this Q and A session seem similar to some of the blogs they published during the 8 era. Very self congratulatory and backpatting on how brilliant it all is.

Corporate comms departments rarely condone negativity in public announcements. It can have a rapid negative effect on share price, reducing net worth in seconds. Ask Elon. Or Edwina Curry. Nothing new to see.

Anyway,I don't think many of us are going to be in 100% agreement with all of this - we will see how things go in the next 10 years!

I've enjoyed providing a counter point. Thank you. BTW I pivoted my business away from Microsoft and towards Linux and MacOS when Vista and Office 2007 launched. Remained that way until Windows 10 launched. Not a Microsoft sycophant by any means.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Umm.....