HEXUS.reviews :: WORLD EXCLUSIVE! INTEL CONROE BENCHMARKED

[BladeRnR]

How'd you guess?



Yes, I am partial to computers that have an OS that actually works.

Didn't post to offend you mate nor am I a MAC expert in any way shape or form. I was only only reiterating what I saw in a retail shop and thought I might add my observations and 2.5cents worth (Aussie currency that is so it's about 5.5centsUSD).

Sorry if I got the MAC terminology skewed. I know how sensitive MAC types are - I work with one

However - I've been a mainframe programmer (Tandem) for about 18 years now. I'm well aware of the RISC Vs CISC architecture but I'm sure somebody got an education here.

I'm also a huge fan of MAC OSX. As I said - I'm OS agnostic....

I fervently believe in the "Infinite Diversity from Infinite Combinations" ideal. Who wouldn't want an 'All-in-one" PC that runs Mac OSX / Vista?

I've also been a Unix programmer since I was 16 and I'm now 39 I'm just as happy coding in a .NET environment.

I believe you are incorrect in that Apple use ATi exclusively for their Graphics sub-system. When I was contemplating a G5 they were offering an Nvidia 6800 series card...

A word from the wise though. If you are going to post like a zealot may I suggest you get your facts straight lest more knowledgable brethren here take you to task over inaccuracies.

There's ALWAYS somebody smarter than you trust me....

[keta]

BladeRnR , becareful with mac people there very touchy on there ground ahahah and macquest i kinda allready explaind everythig that intel is bringing out and all the performance stuff so u kinda just said wat i said lol but yea glad to see some agrees that intel will b ahead for along time 4 months certain no questions askd and maybe longer since kentsfield is a quad core conroe and K8l is designd for quad core soo they will b battleing it out

[schmunk]

.............,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Go on keta, take them, they're free.

[acrobat]

Ok i have 2 more questions, seeing as my last one was answered so fast and well. One quick one, and one big one about RAM.

1) My only concern about upgrading to Conroe (or even a new AM2), is the DDR2 memory. I dont really understand it all... I can see that the latencies are slower than DDR, but people say its faster? How is that? And also, i can see some really expensive stuff at scan for about £280 which is DDR2-800, and also has quite low latencies. Im assuming that would be ideal for when i buy a Conroe. But......... I am just concerned that because its such a new thing..... in a month or so, that price will drop by £100 and then a MUCH better DDR2-800 will be released. I know thats just the way it happens with hardware.... but its possible to avoid jumping on a bandwagon too early and that way you end up getting the best speed gear for the best price. So does anyone know if DDR2 is likely to go through a revolution or something soon? If so, maybe i would be best buying the cheaper, slower latency stuff for about £160 instead, and then replace it in a year for the next breed of DDR2? Or am i worrying too much about RAM latency? Would even the slow stuff work well? Or would it hold the power of the CPU back?


2) Lastly, I see people talking about "Crysis", and also the Conroe Extreme-Editions. Would you all think that the E6600 (3rd Conroe up from the bottom - around $316) would be suitable for Crysis? I read about how the AMD 3500+ works just as well as the AMD FX60 in Oblivon. Because after a certain point the graphics card takes the strain. But if you all think newer games due soon, like Crysis, are going to be more CPU hungry, then it would maybe be worth me spending a bit more and getting the top end, $530 Conroe?

Thanks in advance.

[MacQuest]

[QUOTE=schmunk]Theoretically, this may be correct. However, the fact that Intel's current CISC processors have vastly superior performance to Apple's current RISC processors is the reason that Apple themselves chose to make the move...

Um, no.

IBM simply could not fabricate G5 processors small enough to fit in the 1" thick PowerBook enclosures. Also, IBM did not deliver on their promise of "3Ghz" G5's within a year when Steve Jobs relayed that deadline at his keynote speech at Apple's '03 WWDC.

One year after that initially missed deadline [now 2 years late], IBM still had not reached 3Ghz and still was not able to produce a G5 with low enough heat emission to put in a PowerBook.

That caused Apple's professional PowerBook & PowerMac line to have a huge difference since Apple had moved it's consumer notebook iBook line to G4's with the anticipation of a G5 PowerBook which never came to realization.

With that move, now Apple's consumer and professional lines were uncomfortably close to eachother in performance and therfore hindered PowerBook sales since the lower priced iBooks were so close to the same specs.

That is in LARGE part, is why Apple swithed to Intel. Other reasons were to level the hardware playing field so that people can actually focus on the differences between the OS's instead of being confused by PowerPC vs. x86, and Intel's future processor development road map was very agreeable as well, which we are now witnessing.

More later.

Now please stop being such a fanboy and stop the stupid spelling of companies/products you 'hate' just because you need a side to be on.

Ok. It was suffering from insomnia and was typing that response at about 5am in the morning. Just cranky I guess

[yamangman]

and i'm with schmunk. i like Linux, but "M$" and anything like it is just immature

I said that on another forum once, it caused an uproar, people started accusing me of working for Microsoft.

[rad]

I think this whole preview has been crap.
I also propose a name change of this preview.
Anyone have suggestions?

[DR]

Cheers chap!

[Bob Crabtree]

I think this whole preview has been crap.

And, as I am sure you realise, David and the rest of us do all value your opinion highly - along with your eloquent turn of phrase.

I also propose a name change of this preview.
Anyone have suggestions?

Eric?

Brooklyn?

Efram Zimblast Jr?

Dokeepon Takin-Themedicine?

Oh, and would Sir care to tell us how he arrived at this tightly reasoned opigion, cos none of your other postings necessarily suggests such negative feelings or hints at your latent blind rage?

[I don't mean to be overly assumptive about rad's sex - or, perhaps, frustration due to lack of it - but I tend to think that no woman would be daft enough to have written what rad's written without at least attempting to explain the thinking behind it. Unless she was seriously pissed, of course, but then, I suspect, she might find something better to do in that state.

[DR]

And, as I am sure you realise, David and the rest of us do all value your opinion highly - along with your eloquent turn of phrase.



Eric?

Brooklyn?

Efram Zimblast Jr?

Dokeepon Takin-Themedicine?

Oh, and would Sir care to tell us how he arrived at this tightly reasoned opigion, cos none of your other postings necessarily suggests such negative feelings or hints at your latent blind rage?

[I don't mean to be overly assumptive about rad's sex - or, perhaps, frustration due to lack of it - but I tend to think that no woman would be daft enough to have written what rad's written without at least attempting to explain the thinking behind it. Unless she was seriously pissed, of course, but then, I suspect, she might find something better to do in that state.

[rad]

Thanks for that. I was starting to get a bit bored. I like a bit of entertainment.
I wasn't serious about the previous comments.

[DR]

Thanks for that. I was starting to get a bit bored. I like a bit of entertainment.
I wasn't serious about the previous comments.

[rad]

Thanks Bob
Those comments were priceless. Especially the last paragraph, that was the best.
I am still laughing.
That's why I love these forums. You never know what people are going to write.

[rad]

Hey everyone check this out
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31891

[MacQuest]

Now please stop being such a fanboy and stop the stupid spelling of companies/products you 'hate' just because you need a side to be on.

Again, I apologize for my cranky posting so early [5am my time] in the morning. I will refrain from modifying names in the future, yet you will notice that I never capatilize the names microsoft or bill gates. That is simply because I don't even afford them that minimal level of respect.

FYI, the reason I address microsoft the way I do, and in particular bill gates, is because the only thing I despise more than criminal organizations are the kingpin criminals behind them. I have a particular disdain for "white collar" criminal like gates.

Don't bother arguing with me either as to the validity of my claim.

FACT: microsoft has been convicted 3 times, by 3 countries, in less than 5 years for the same illegal business practices. PERIOD.

2001 - US Department of Justice
2004 - European Union
2005 - South Korea

More lawsuits by more countries are being filed as I post this info, and microsoft's petty attempts to weasel their way out of these indictments are mostly falling on deaf ears. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060524-6899.html

Why? Because once a criminal, always a criminal.

FACT: windows is an insecure http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3492922.stm], bug ridden, cruel joke of an OS that was rushed to market by "reverse engineering" [aka stealing] the far superior Mac OS codebase under the guise of "needing that code in order to write better software for the Mac". That was the same excuse gates gave IBM when IBM and microsoft were working on OS/2. All the while, gates was telling IBM that microsoft was working on bettering that OS, when in actuality he was simply stalling on it in order to give windows a chance to rise from the eventual ashes of OS/2 that would plume from its sabotaged destruction.

Even on it's worst day, Mas OS always has been far superior to it's cheap copy counterpart aka windows, even before Unix based Mac OS X was introduced 5 years ago.

Oh, and while the main reason[s] that I dislike microsoft and bill gates have now been stated, you're absolutely right schmuk, I do need a side to be on. The right side. The one that rights wrongs and exposes frauds and criminals, be they individuals or organizations, for what they really are.

The side that speaks on behalf of those that have been wronged, especially if they are better. Yes, the right[eous] side.

Back on topic now though. Conroe really does spank AMD's "botty"... I mean, "booty".

This HEXUS article referenced on HardMac: http://www.hardmac.com/news/2006-05-25/#5532

We [the Mac community] are keeping a very close eye on all of these developments.

[MacQuest]

Didn't post to offend you mate

You didn't offend me at all.

I simply wanted to set the record straight for anyone else that might be contemplating jumping on the Mac OS bandwagon now that Boot Camp allows Mac and windows OS's to run natively on one physical Macintosh computer. I didn't want anyone saying PowerPC [a type of processor that Apple is phasing out] when they actually meant PowerMac [or soon to be "Mac Pro", an Apple CPU tower model].

That's all.

Hey, did you know that you also have the option to run multiple OS's within Mac OS X [instead of booting into either one or the other OS individually] utilizing the virtualization technology built into Intel's Core series chips? http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/

Believe me, that Parallel Workstation solution is NOT a junky piece of over-priced emulation software like microsoft's Virtual PC [formerly owned by Connectix].

Sorry if I got the MAC terminology skewed. I know how sensitive MAC types are - I work with one

Again, I apologize if you think that I in anyway got "upset" over this. I simply was correcting the mistatement so that no one else would get confused.

Oh yeah, and us "Mac types" [especially ones like me who worked as a Novell, windows, and Mac network administrator for Xerox] know how un-enthusiastic windows users can be [not speaking to you directly BladeRnR] about their computers and not understand why we "Mac types" seem to be "excited" about our Macs.

Most of "us" [the Mac community] are not zealots, fanatical or evangelical. We're simply loyal to our computers that work hassle-free for an extended peiod of time. It's that simple. Can most windows users say the same. If they could, I personally wouldn't average 2-4 windows users switching to Mac a day 5x a week. And that's just me.

You wanna know how many Mac users I've witnessed switch from Mac to windows in the past 4 years? Draw a circle and you'll have answered that question.

We "Mac types" [in my case, who know windows just as well as we know Mac... which is why we don't use windows] know that the massive amount of "switchers" http://www.apple.com/getamac/ we see switching every week [175 Apple Stores will have opened within 5 years, internationally, by the end of this year] won't know how good personal computing can be until they actually switch.

When they do, they more often than not end up switching an unknowing relative, friend, or even a co-worker who has now witnessed first hand how much easier computing is with a Mac. This is that loyalty of which I speak. A recent switcher, ends up swicthing others based on the knowledge that they have now attained themselves. And so the cycle begins and a new loyal Mac user is born...

The switcher movement is very real and is an unstoppable avalanche that continues to gain momentum, and has been doing so since 2002. Where as it may have taken a windows user 2-3 return visits, and a lenghty amount of re-assurance and explanation to make the switch back in 2002, today's switchers now come in knowing that they are going to switch because they've had it with the plague that is windows.

However - I've been a mainframe programmer (Tandem) for about 18 years now. I'm well aware of the RISC Vs CISC architecture but I'm sure somebody got an education here.

Great background. I'm sure you know you're stuff and I can't emphasize enough that I just wanted others who may have been looking through this thread to know the difference between PowerPC processors and PowerMac computers.

As aforementioned, I'm a former Novell, windows, and Mac administrator for Xerox. If anyone ever has the opportunity to visit XDU [Xerox Document University] in Leesburg, Virginia [I'm in California, but was flown out there by Xerox for training with professors who have been with Xerox since as early as the 60's... talk about a history lesson about the evolution of computing, in particular a young Steve Jobs and bill gates, straight from people that were there!] then by all means... VISIT XDU! They have a museum in one of the 4 campus buildings [North, South, East, West] with the very first mouse and computer with Xerox's PARC developed GUI.

Of course, the last time I worked for Xerox and visited XDU was back in '02, right before I resigned and went to work for a "fruity" company. Not with them now though [directly], which is why I can discuss a limited amount of things without worrying about any NDA violation.

You've got me slightly beat age-wise though BladeRnR, I'm 36. Did you think I was some inexperienced "young buck"? I never thought that of you.

I'm also a huge fan of MAC OSX. As I said - I'm OS agnostic....

Glad to hear that you're a fan of Mac OS X. I'm not OS agnostic though because I'm a Mac user who knows what you may be on the verge of finding out, should you decide to buy a Mac. That windows [all versions] and Linux [some distros more than others] are poor excuses for OS's.

There's a lot to be excited about Mac OS X now, but that's nothing compared to what will excite you with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard later this year.

Honestly, just so that everybody undertands what this whole Apple "Boot Camp" dual boot capability is really all about, yes it fascilitates the switcher movement for the multitude of people who may have in the past, or are currently contemplating switching to Mac. That's only half the story though people.

The more serious motive [which is why I'm so excited ], is quite simply "domination through assimilation". Mac OS will expose windows for the junk OS that it is by allowing people to run windows on a Mac. It's a form of public education as well as blatant public ridicule. We [the Mac community and Apple... I'm not speaking for Apple BTW, officially] want people to be able to do a side by side comparison of a Mac and windows computer under their own terms, on their own timeframe, in their own environment, and on their own equipment.

A Mac is the only piece of computer equipment that will accurately represent both a Mac [obviously] and a windows computer, now that Apple uses the same hardware as other windows pc manufacturers.

You wanna bet what the outcome will be? The inevitable switch to primarily Macintosh use, while relegating windows useage to an "as needed only" basis [like the occasional windows only apps, which other than games, for the vast majority of people tends to only be Office... which has a Mac version anyway, therefore eliminating the need for windows completely ].

Oh wait, here's a classic counter-argument, "But what if microsoft decides to stop making Office for Mac?!"

Apple's "Pages" owns ms word and is fully compatabile. Apple's Keynote owns powerpoint and is fully compatible. They both come packaged together in iWork http://www.apple.com/iwork/ for half the cost of the studentteacher edition of ms offiice.

"What about Excel?"

Yeah, I'm sure Apple who makes much higher quality, easy to use software like Final Cut Pro is having a problem developing a database application and doesn't have it ready to ship in a moments notice if microsoft suddenly decides to [in typical microsoft fashion] "take it's ball and go home" because the other kids won't let it win.

"Then why hasn't Apple released that database application and/or a ms office 'killer' application that combines Pages, Keynote, Xcell[?] , and also combine the functionality of Mac OS X's Mail, iSync, and iCal applications to take care of any Outlook needs?!!!"

For the customer's sake. No need to fight all battles all at once. ms office for Mac is still available and the MacBU [Mac Busines Unit] at microsoft has done an excellent job with it. Apple's already rocking the end user's boat with switching OS's, office can wait.

Users can now see for themselves which computer, more accurately, which OS, is the one that doesn't need it's hand held, doesn't need constant maintenance, doesn't cause constant grief, and doesn't make you resort to buying a new computer every 1 1/2 to 2 years [on average] due to all of those issues I just mentioned.

Most users [especially home and non-"power" users who only want a computer to work reliably for an extended period of time... not too much to ask really, and Macs provide that] are now starting to realize that the key to attaining this superior user experience is to use a computer with a much higher level of quality control... as in seamless integration between the 2 most important parts of any computer, the OS and it's hardware configuration.

There's only one company that makes it's own OS specifically for it's own hardware configuration. Care to guess who that might be? Here's a hint: It starts with an A... and ends in PPLE.

Now, with the introduction of Boot Camp [are you prepping for the impending OS war yet?], not only will people realize that Macs are the most reliable computers in general [sit down Linux users, until you decide on a distro, stabilize it, and start configuring you're own hardware to work specifically with it] but also that [drumroll please]...
MACS ARE NOW THE MOST RELIABLE wINDOWS COMPUTERS [because of the known hardware configuration when you install windows on a Mac using Boot Camp and install Apple's own provided hardware drivers on the windows partition].

Did you hear that? I think it was steve ballmer calling for more developers and the sound of bill gates dropping more ill-gotten change into another humane cause to try and divert attention from his joke of a company and it's OS.

Welcome to the better side of computing. Welcome to Mac.

I fervently believe in the "Infinite Diversity from Infinite Combinations" ideal. Who wouldn't want an 'All-in-one" PC that runs Mac OSX / Vista?

Or how about any version of windows, Linux [whatever distro ], Sun Solaris, eComstation, OS/2 Warp, etc. http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/

I believe you are incorrect in that Apple use ATi exclusively for their Graphics sub-system. When I was contemplating a G5 they were offering an Nvidia 6800 series card...

ALL INTEL BASED MACS [currently] ONLY USE ATI GRAPHICS CARDS. You are correct in that prior to the move to the Intel chipset, Apple used BOTH Nvidea and ATI cards in different G5/PowerPC based product lines.

But you said that you are mostly intrigued with the ability to run multiple OS's natively. Go ahead, try to load Boot Camp and run another OS natively on that G5 you were contemplating.

A word from the wise though. If you are going to post like a zealot may I suggest you get your facts straight lest more knowledgable brethren here take you to task over inaccuracies.

If I post something, it's because I know it. If I don't know something I will say so and ask for help and/or enlightenment.

If this comment was made because of your inaccurate belief that Nvidea cards are available in any of the current Intel based Macs that can install Boot Camp and dual boot [which I believe is your primary reason for contemplating your move to a Mac] then... I accept the apology that you will probably offer when you quickly find out that I was right about the fact that NO INTEL BASED MAC WHICH IS WHAT YOU NEED IN ORDER TO DUAL BOOT HAS AN NVIDEA CARD.

Now, will the unnanounced Intel based Powermac [Mac Pro] replacements use Nvidea cards? Where is my [former] emp. manual... "Apple does not comment on unnanounced products".

There's ALWAYS somebody smarter than you trust me....

Um... BRING IT ON?!!!

Granted, there are lots of people who have a lot of "read" knowledge, as do I, but I stand behind my applied knowledge, aka real world, hands on experience.



Back on topic now though. Conroe really does spank AMD's "botty"... I mean, "booty". [can someone please fix this?]

This HEXUS article referenced on HardMac: http://www.hardmac.com/news/2006-05-25/#5532

We [the Mac community] are keeping a very close eye on all of these developments.