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Thread: HEXUS.opinions :: Microsoft Vista EULA spits in the eye of self-builders worldwide

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    Unhappy HEXUS.opinions :: Microsoft Vista EULA spits in the eye of self-builders worldwide

    Is Microsoft in danger of alienating the entire worldwide community of PC self-builders by new conditions it's imposing for the use of retail version of Windows Vista?

    We think it is.
    Check out this HEXUS.opinions piece and let us know your thoughts.


    Update November 3, 05:07


    Microsoft has had something of a change of heart - as a result of the noise created in forum threads such as this one around the world.

    Check out this HEXUS.headline - PC enthusiasts' clamour gets major change in Windows Vista EULA - though it's not all good news.
    Last edited by Bob Crabtree; 03-11-2006 at 06:09 AM.

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    Moderator chuckskull's Avatar
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    Microsoft will most likely cave or be fined beyond belief by the EU. This is stupid though, it's pretty much guarenteed to increase piracy rather than reduce it.

    I'll buy my first cipy of vista above board, but if i swap my graphics card(a regular occurence) and MS expect me to fork over another few hundred quid, i dont think so

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    awm
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    So Macs are more expensive? You can get a Mac Mini for 399 pounds, so that means that you get a better operating system undled with a decent (and tiny and very sexy) computer for less than 100 pounds. And you need to upgrade less often. Now if most games just had Mac versions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awm View Post
    So Macs are more expensive? You can get a Mac Mini for 399 pounds, so that means that you get a better operating system undled with a decent (and tiny and very sexy) computer for less than 100 pounds. And you need to upgrade less often. Now if most games just had Mac versions.
    Just remember that every 18 months, you need to fork out $130/£90 for the latest OS X. And chances are, you wouldn't be totally gutting the insides of a mac and so the argument for mac's here is pretty slim

    I think I pretty much agree with everything listed in the article, it shares my own feelings from when all this first came out when the EULA was first revealed. IIRC it's $400 for Vista Ultimate - £325 seems to be taking the piss, so import it is (if they don't have something to stop that as well).

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    daft ideas inc. scottyman's Avatar
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    I find that really quite annoying -
    think i'll be sticking with XP for the time being, or talking to my IS dept about them buying my licenses and simply bringing in my PC to the office every time I want to re-image it. will be cleaner and easier to chuck the boys an extra bottle of something warming for winter along with the license fee!
    I suppose for average joe soap it's going to be confusing, but they really won't be affected - but for guys like us who tend to re-image every 6 months or so it's going to be a complete pain!
    frankly I'd rather spend the 300 on better hardware, and stay away from Vista until MS reconsider their activation schemes.
    Do you think it's possible this is a worst-case scenario and they'll adjust it accordingly in 6months to a year based on consumer feedback?

    Admittedly they're doing this in attempt to cut down on piracy, but if the schemes are this restrictive - the crackers will probably make some headway into this in a few months time and MS won't even notice a drop in their earnings as by definition, they won't have paid for it in the first place.
    it's better to make it less restrictive for the people who will be buying a new copy of vista to upgrade an existing WXPHome box from PC World or Dabs, Scan or Amazon - then at least there can be an audit trail.

    Still hate the UI on macs - it's far too pretty!

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    Thundercats Ho! starbuck's Avatar
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    what about the EULA on OEM versions though. If I do a major upgrade then I would probably include an OEM version of vista with it. Wonder if the same restriction would apply on this version if I later upgraded different components seperately(ie my major upgrade would prob be cpu,mobo and ram then maybe a new GPU within 6 months of that, maybe a new soundcard etc).

    I assume most, if not all of us on this board are not unaccustomed to upgrading our pc's bit by bit and used to reformatting the drive now and again before reinstalling the OS to get rid of all the rubbish that builds up afer a while. How will microsoft deal with this?
    I do know everything, just not all at once. It's a virtual memory problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by starbuck View Post
    what about the EULA on OEM versions though. If I do a major upgrade then I would probably include an OEM version of vista with it. Wonder if the same restriction would apply on this version if I later upgraded different components seperately(ie my major upgrade would prob be cpu,mobo and ram then maybe a new GPU within 6 months of that, maybe a new soundcard etc).

    I assume most, if not all of us on this board are not unaccustomed to upgrading our pc's bit by bit and used to reformatting the drive now and again before reinstalling the OS to get rid of all the rubbish that builds up afer a while. How will microsoft deal with this?
    OEM licenses are never meant to be transferrred - they are meant to be used on the original PC only. As such, if a key component (usually taken as a motherboard) is replaced, it's no longer the same machine, and so you technically have no right to continue using the existing license. It's a real pity however that our motherboards keep "failing" and so we need to "replace" the whole lot, which MS thankfully do seem to allow
    Last edited by tickedon; 24-10-2006 at 07:53 AM.

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    If only Linux wasn't so foreboding to the casual user who just wants an operating system that works. That is what is needed to give Microsoft a kick up the arse.

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    How are these new license restrictions going to affect hardware review sites like Hexus? Under the WinXP EULA it’s sufficient to have only one or two licenses for the benchmark lab which just get used over again as allowed by section 14:

    14. SOFTWARE TRANSFER. Internal. You may move the Software to a different Workstation Computer. After the transfer, you must completely remove the Software from the former Workstation Computer.
    This means that if you’re reviewing 3 motherboards you can set up motherboard A, install WinXP, and run the benchmarks etc., then format the hard drive and transfer it to motherboard B, reinstall etc., motherboard C etc. and remain compliant with the license terms.

    The equivalent section in the Vista EULA reads:

    15. REASSIGN TO ANOTHER DEVICE.
    a. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device.”
    This means you can use a single license to benchmark motherboards A and B but you cannot then use it for motherboard C.

    Now technically you could say that as long as you don’t activate the installation you’ll be able to install and run Vista long enough to review each motherboard, but you’ll still be breaking the user rights as granted in section 2 because this section states that you have to assign the license to a device before you can even use the software (installation) not just when you activate.

    2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. Before you use the software under a license, you must assign that license to one device (physical hardware system).

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    this is just a load of nonsense, what are microsoft playing at, these prices are sky high and the fact that i can run two different setups of the same OS on the same machine bites, if i have payed for it i should be allowed to do what i want on my one machine.

    I often upgrade bits as i go along, hell since i bought XP when it first came out i've bought 4 Mobo's, 3 CPU's 4 GFx 8 HDDs 4 sets of ram, now if i had to buy a new vista each time i made a major change id tell M$ where to stick their OS

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpeach View Post
    If only Linux wasn't so foreboding to the casual user who just wants an operating system that works. That is what is needed to give Microsoft a kick up the arse.
    Casual users won't be swapping out motherboards - they'll buy replacement laptops that already come with an OS each time.

    System builders all run Linux right? Well that's what some people would have you believe.

    XP already distinguishes between replacing a broken component and upgrading (via you saying so to the person on the end of the phone) - is there any reason to believe this won't continue to be the case with Vista?

    Ultimately it's the enthusiast component market that's going to take the hit from all of this - people will upgrade less frequently, and when they do they will have to leave some budget aside for a new OS. Having said that though, it's not all that different from people who buy the OEM version of an OS already.

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markj View Post
    How are these new license restrictions going to affect hardware review sites like Hexus?
    It'd only be a problem if they needed to review a system over more than 30 days at a time.

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    Even if this enforced in software it'll be patched in a week.
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    the other section I'm not sure I liked was you can only use the software on 2 processers - does a dual core processer count as 2 processers? if so where does that leave quad core? (besides being forced to usse Ultimate Edition)
    Quote Originally Posted by EULA
    a. Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the licensed device. You may
    use the software on up to two processors on that device at one time. Except as provided in the
    Storage and Network Use (Ultimate edition) sections below, you may not use the software on any
    other device.
    Last edited by Blademrk; 24-10-2006 at 10:26 AM. Reason: added quote
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    It'd only be a problem if they needed to review a system over more than 30 days at a time.
    No it won't because as I said, section 2 of the Vista EULA requires you to assign the license to a device before you install the software, after which section 15a allows to to reassign it to another device once only.

    Using the "you have 30 days to activate" loophole to try and get around this may be technically possible but it is illegal, and could leave a commercial site like Hexus open for prosecution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademrk View Post
    the other section I'm not sure I liked was you can only use the software on 2 processers - does a dual core processer count as 2 processers? if so where does that leave quad core? (besides being forced to usse Ultimate Edition)
    Currently under WinXP the number of processors is counted by the number of occupied sockets on the motherboard, not the number of cores on the CPU; this shouldn't be an issue.
    Last edited by Markj; 24-10-2006 at 10:40 AM.

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    Does he need a reason? Funkstar's Avatar
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    boy i'm glad i get 10 client licences through the Microsoft Partner program. there's no way i'm actually going to pay for Vista.

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