Fair enough. I was actually trying to find something, *anything* about the review to criticise. That was the only thing I could find. I agree with you that I would prefer to have a proper sound card. (I do).Originally Posted by chuckskull
So there is bugger all about the review to criticise then.
--miw
Dodgy reviews are something that has always miffed me. As has been said many times already in this thread, if the product is any good, it should get a review reflecting that, or if it is overpriced, underspecced, or just plain fugly, then that should be made clear as well.
I have never been a fan of Alienware, mainly because of the frankly ridiculous prices for what amounts to a few decent parts in a seriously hideous plastic box.
I applaud Hexus for making this public and i hope more review websites decide to follow suit.
u see, this is why me, the consumer, loves hexus, i trust it
if somethings not right, they'll tell us, and i commend u guys for this, what if id read a phoney review and wasted money? id be furious!
there really should be a law that stops companys expecting their product to get great reviews regardless of whether its acturally any good
shame on u alienware, doesnt look good at all, does it??
Wow, Alienware really screwed up this time
Lets be honest how many people here are stupid enough to buy anything from them.
I think its great that hexus have named and shamed alienware but i would have not published the emails in whole, it feels wrong somehow.
Yeah, this is my first post, flame away. I followed this story from another site and had to respond to this.
First, Alienware was definately snotty in their reply to the system request. No doubt about it. All he had to say was, "sorry budgets are tight." And that would have been the end of it.
But good grief, I truly can't believe the overreaction of HEXUS. To suggest Alien's replies indicated they were trying to buy HEXUS or that now the truth/integrity of other journalists should be called into question - is nothing short of hysteria. Alien could have said it a thousand different ways but there is absolutely nothing wrong with NOT supplying a product for review if the company thinks it will be subjected to benchmarking that will reveal it not living up to the hype/price/marketing/etc. I'm not suggesting it's acceptable to decieve/lie but very few products live up to it's marketing.
I work for a company that regualrly submits products to print/online publications for review. Our products would never live up to the testing done on HEXUS but then again, this site doesn't hit our target audience. Not submitting our products to this site doesn't make us liars or criminals - it's Marketing 101. And this is the first mistake Alien made - submitting the wrong product to this site. Our customers aren't interested in the technical details this site provides. And the readers of this site aren't interested in our products. In fact, readers of this site ridicule our products and consider them for the masses. This isn't to say anyone is "wrong."
I am dismayed at the shock of HEXUS to learn that companies are subjective with who they offer review units to. EVERY SINGLE company does this. Think of it in reverse: Do motherboard companies send units to Kim Komando? Of course not and this is because she doesnt' reach their target audience.
Also, the article that provided the overview of this whole thing was way overboard. The author claimed this site is fully objective but his article was clearly not. In fact, it was down right mean-spirited.
Think about it people - many of you are applauding HEXUS for exposing the "truth" about coporate product review practices. Did ya'll really not know any of this before?
Ok I am quoting someone from a forum where i regularly read. Here is his insight on the subject:
Well...
I think Hexus has made a major error here, though it's obvious most of the guys on their forums don't have a clue how the computer industry works.
The biggest failing in my opinion is Hexus' decision to post emails from Alienware, and intentionally misrepresent what they're saying. Hexus even goes so far as to suggest that Alienware's decision not to send them another review system upon request is illegal, when all Alienware emails include an industry standard legal disclaimer stating clearly that the content of the emails is intended for the addressee only.
So Hexus wants you to believe it's illegal for AW not to send them a new system for review on their request, but posting private emails is hunky dory?
The problem here is the relationship between these kinds of review sites and media organizations, and the companies that make the products they review is a sensitive one. Hexus decision to post these allegations will do nothing other than make other manufacturers resist sending anything to their review staff. Hexus pitiful readership isn't going to hurt Alienware, this will backfire on Hexus in regards to the ability to get review rigs in the future.
AW takes part in several review programs including [H]ardOCP's blind system. [H] has an agreement with participating companies so they can order a system online so the company doesn't know they're being reviewed, then after the review the companies take the machine back and refund [H]'s money. This way the reader gets a true customer perspective in all it's ugliness or glory.
I read the original review, and it's clearly from a perspective of disdain for Alienware and this system in particular. They use language like "bemused" and whine that the system they have, a pre-production model came with a 7950GX2 instead of dual 512 GTX's, though you can choose that if you want. Are they retarded and not able to understand how a configurator works? They also complain that the video card wasn't overclocked. No large manufacturer sells systems with overclocked cards unless they're a line of factory overclocked cards from the manufacturer.
It's clear to me that the purpose of Hexus' review is to promote local manufacturers rather than do an honest review of systems available on the market from all manufacturers.
Here are some comments from the original review:
Quote:
Alienware adds a large, silver-coloured plastic appendage to the rear of the chassis, and the ubiquitous head, as seen obscuring the 120mm exhaust fan, we reckon, actually impinges upon airflow.
We reckon? Does it impinge on airflow or not? AW uses a back panel to clean up the back of the machine's appearance for aesthetics, I don't see how they can "reckon" that the "large appendage" (?) "impinges" on "airflow". I guess Hexus doesn't like bezels.
Quote:
What's also telling is that Alienware ships this particular SKU with a 'single' graphics card, which is a regular-clocked NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2 1024MiB. We'd really hoped to see pre-overclocked GeForce 7900 GTX 512MiB cards in SLI at this stratospheric price-point.
I would have preferred that AW include three hookers and a case of beer at their pricepoint. What's the point of this kind of comment? It's clear from the review the only substantive issue they have with this system is price, so why not just say so?
And if you want to get 7900GTX's in SLI, order them. If you don't like the price, don't.
Quote:
...if you consider that Alienware is shipping this gaming machine with AC'97 audio emanating from the nForce4 SLI I.E.'s southbridge, the lack of a decent soundcard is all the more conspicuous by its absence.
So click the little box next to the X-Fi card when you're ordering, you moron...
Quote:
You'll know that Alienware chose to outfit this SKU with a single NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2 card that's clocked in at the reference's 500/1200 clocks. Perhaps we're being overly critical, and we'd love to hear your comments in our forums, but we'd expect a £3K+ base unit to feature either a heavily overclocked 'GX2 (XFX, anyone?) or twin 7900 GTXs in SLI, preferably overclocked models. Quad SLI, perhaps, should be available at this kind of price point, too.
I don't get it. If you want dual GTX's in SLI, order them. If you don't like the price, shop elsewhere.
Quote:
System storage is taken care of by a couple 500GB Hitachi SATA2 drives. They're quiet, speedy and effective, so we have no problems with their inclusion. Of course, always wanting more bang for the buck, a Seagate 750GB wouldn't have gone amiss in this showcase SKU.
OMG, AW only included a tetrabyte of storage. What's their problem? Why didn't they include an even larger and slower hard drive in the system?
Quote:
The NEC ReWriter is an older model and we'd hoped to see a secondary optical drive in a system costing over £3,000. Alienware will contest that it's an optional extra, which it is, but with a DVD-ROM costing £26+VAT and a 'premium' DVD ReWriter £68+VAT, we're nonplussed to see a secondary drive not specified as standard.
Of course it's an optional extra. Most people don't want secondary optical drives, but if you do, AW will let you choose. How dare they...
Quote:
The side highlights the chassis' good looks but beauty is only skin deep. Remember, it's a regular steel chassis on the inside.
Oh no, you mean it's a solid steel internal computer case? How dare they...
Quote:
We're fine with the procedure Alienware adopts in case of problems but we're left bemused that a £3K+ base unit ships with a 1-year CAR warranty.
Bemused? If you want more warranty, order it. Or would that reduce your bemusement?
Quote:
In keeping with Dell's upgrade philosophy, then, certain upgrades are, basically, a complete and utter rip-off. Others, though, are more palatable. For our sample SKU, upgrading the graphics cards to twin GeForce 7900 GTX 512MiBs will cost you an additional £122, upgrading the warranty to 4yrs CAR an additional £187, both prices excluding the dreaded VAT. We're also confused by Alienware not specifying any onsite support options whatsoever. Hmm.
Complete and utter rip-off? Gee, I wonder why Alienware would have a problem with their review style...
Here they show that you can get what you want from Alienware if you order it. It's unfortunate that AW didn't let the Hexus gods configure a custom machine for them to poop on.
And how many of these cheaper machines they're touting that are overclocked pimp rigs offer on site warranties?
Quote:
Alienware also offers customers a 14-day money back policy if they're not completely satisfied by the system. It's worth noting that part of that timescale is a legal requirement under the U.K.'s distance selling regulations.
So AW has a no questions asked return policy, and it's in compliance with EU regulations. Why is that worth noting?
Quote:
The components' list is definitely high-end but so is the price. You'll end up paying almost £3200 (inc. delivery) for this base unit that ships with a single graphics card. We totted up the price of the individual components if bought from a respectable etailer and our calculator returned a figure of just over £2,000.
So you can "tot" up a price of components from an etailer warehouse that costs less than a complete configured and integrated and warranted system with an operating system?
BREAKING NEWS! HEXUS FOUND OUT YOU CAN BUY PARTS FROM A DISCOUNT ONLINE STORE FOR LESS THAN YOU CAN BUY A FULLY WARRANTED COMPLETE SYSTEM FROM ALIENWARE!!!
Duh?
I don't have a problem with a review site that wants to review a system, and has a problem with the bottom line. Everyone knows that you can find systems from small manufacturers for less than Alienware, though there are many factors involved with this kind of purchase. You have to consider support, component quality and manufacturer, etc...
That being said, it certainly appears to me that the point of this review is to point out in "bemused" terms that you can buy systems from local manufacturers for less than Alienware, and a majority of this "review" is to list other local manufacturers rather than to give an honest review of the AW system.
Hexus must assume their readers are absolute noobish morons that know nothing about the computer industry. Reading the comments after this review in their forums certainly show that is the case. It's obvious due to EU regs, and especially the UK's VAT costs, that it's prohibitively expensive for a foreign company like AW to sell their systems in Europe. While AW has facilities in Ireland to offset some of this expense, it's obvious these taxes and duties are there to give the advantage pricewise to local manufacturers.
Bottom line is you can get everything they listed in an AW system, they just don't like the price. That's fine and dandy. However, using a review of an AW system to "bemusingly" thumb your nose at AW and promote local competition isn't going to "bemuse" AW now is it?
It's also telling to me that when Hexus demands a high end review system from AW for the G80 intro, they have a hissy fit when AW says no. For them to take this public is ridiculous and unprofessional, and to mirror their ridiculous claim that AW's refusal to supply them with a review system may be illegal, their decision to post confidential emails despite the legal disclaimer may in fact be illegal.
Hexus.com has alot of reviewer's buying potential and 'could' take a product and purposely make it "flop" or "succeed"...Any major review website could do this depending on 'Bribes' or a 'payoff'. From what I have seen in some reviews I have read in the past I personally think Hexus.com is the...lets say "straight forward" type and I personally like reading non bias reviews from this site.
As I see it, Alienware tried to talk to Hexus.com on a professional level by contacting them using email. Alienware also tried talking to you with the "straight forward" type additude that Hexus claims to have. Upon contacting Hexus about their point of view (wich obviously was meant for a certain person's reading only) of the past review of a computer product, Hexus got offended and deliberatly posted past emails that Alienware wrote, again this was not intended for everyone too see.
In my opionion that was completly BS to post that. If I was a marketer, I would never ever send you a product to review ever again even though it didn't happen to my product. Perhaps that was what you wanted in the first place, to have everyone stop sending you things to review. It's not the fact that you wrote negatives towards their product, it's how you went about it to make a company that made you mad...and got revenge by posting their straight forward facts knowing how damaging it could be. Do you actaully think that this would benifit you in any way? Ok, you might have gained a few fans and alot of web hits for a few months. Once this gets posted all over the net, I would expect manufactures to think twice about sending you anything. If you do recive things, I wouldn't be supprised if they delt with you on a childs level vs a professional level.
Sorry for the long post. This is the right2reply post so I just stated my opionion on the subject. In no way was I trying to put down Hexus but sorta had to say it because personally I think there in the wrong by doing this.
I must admit it does seem a trifle odd that spud387 (and also another use in the actual review) only signed up in October and only 2 posts to only this thread...the plot thickens.
The main point that was raised in all this and thats what we seem to get away from is Alienware (I'm not following the company employees changing it to AW) only send their products to favourable reviews which while its probably practice elsewhere, they seem suprised Hexus isn't interested. Seems they are now on the back foot and doing anything to salvage their name, very disappointing for a company to behave like this and only serves to further distance themselves from any potential customers.
Isn't the theory you have a good experience and tell 2 or 4 people, have a bad and you tell 7 or 8? Well I have already sent this to 8 people, 3 of which have a budget for next year's workstations already.
Last edited by GeorgeTuk; 31-10-2006 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Remove the spouting of rubbish
Stealth Geek - And Proud!
I have not read the whole thread, because frankly, I don't have the time. However, it does seem a little naive of Hexus to assume that Alienware are just going to send systems out for free over to review, when they feel that they are not going to get their moneys worth out of it. I don't credit the guys at [H] much but the way they actually purchase systems from the builders (supposedly) anonymously, means that they can give a fair representation of performance without the possible influence of extraneous factors. I believe that Hexus has the UK and worldwide presence to do that too.
What on earth are you on about? 99.9% of all review sites get a lot of their hardware free to review, in which case they are expected to return the items to the manufacturer (be it alienware, amd etc...) after the review.
would you spend £3000 on the alienware system when you could get the same hardware for several hundred less with better support?
would you advise several thousand people to do so, given the opportunity?
to an extent, i don't blame alienware. if you have a limited budget for review samples (and this is the marketing budget), then you're obviously going to want to maximise your ROI - by getting the best review scores you can. if that means strategic selection of publications, then that's fair enough.
however, where i disagree with alienware is in their condemnation of the pc review. at alienware prices, you absolutely cannot expect issues with a system to be glossed over - you can reasonably expect something FAR closer to perfection than your basic dell desktop machine.
what alienware marketing needs to realise is that they have competition in their market sector - from other "premium" companies like voodoohp and falcon, or from "normal" systems integrators like mesh producing high-end SKUs which compete on specification and price, if not polish & prestige. you *cannot* trade on name alone, as Sony are discovering in the past few months.
you brought up several quotes from the review, but missed the point - for £3000, you shouldn't *need* to add components above & beyond what the smaller companies do already. onboard nforce4 audio? you'd get that on a £300 desktop box from pc world. start tacking on the extra options, and the gulf widens between the alienware and competing machines. the point of totting up the cost of components is highlighting the markup that a systems integrator costs you - and underscores the gulf between alien and other similar systems.
boutique turnkey pcs aren't a "value" proposition, but they're still a competitive market - if alienware can't compete on specification or price with their peers in the sector, then they can't reasonably expect anyone to ignore those points.
so, i'll ask again.
would you spend £3000 on a machine with onboard audio which offers no real advantages over a cheaper machine from a regular vendor or better-specified machine from a boutique vendor? could you, in conscience, recommend to your friends and family to do so?
Yes, I understand that. However, when reviews work like that, there is always the possibility of a certain "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" mentality. Hexus is trying to state its complete independence from manufacturer influence, which I applaud but it seems that in this case they were after a free system to review, and they are not considering the Alienwares interests in providing this.
Hexus desires the traffic from a review featuring a system available to buy that includes the G80, which they would get. However, in the eyes of the bosses at Alienware, would providing a system be worth the chance of a bad review? If they feel that they would receive a bad review, I think they are well within their rights not to provide a system.
As I have said, if Hexus really wants to provide an independent system review, they should buy their systems anonymously, and then invite manufacturer feedback after the review is published. I really think the Hexus "right to reply" system is a great thing for all parties involved.
Anyway, this is a fascinating debate, and I look forward to reading more about it and seeing any changes that result because of it.
Last edited by roadie; 31-10-2006 at 12:48 PM.
Wow... you must be genuine...
alienware is not the only retail company selling power rigs online. it's also not the best, actually far from it. so, what you saying? what do you guys provide that others don't? a dell guarantee?
So, it goes on all the time on other websites, and maybe there are plenty of manufacturers that do it, but that doesnt mean that its right. Most consumers arent stupid, it is relatively easy to see when reviews are biased, so for me personally, I would like to read honest reviews, not ones being fuelled by backhanders, I mean what is the point of a review that has no honesty in it? From a consumer point of view - none.
Hi all,
I really wonder about the style Hexus is using here...
Truly Mr. Bettinson could have been more clever, by just saying "I'm sorry - we don't have one" ... fullstop. But I have no idea what the hell came over you to make this entire story public.
Publishing mails (restricted content or not is not the question) is a very very questionable thing. If I would be manufacturer I really would think more than twice if I would send anything for review to Hexus. Who know's what's bitten the editor that day...
I truly want honest reviews, everbody does, including industry. If systems do have a fault the editor has to write it. The review itself is correct, although I've got the feeling that the editor has someting against Alienware in general or vice versa pro Mesh. They are doing identical configs for lower price - OK, then state it one time , or two, but don't look for a needle in a haystack...
There always will be quite comparable products at different pricepoints. That's the way a market works. supply & demand. Why the heck should I buy a Vauxhall when a Volkswagen with same specs has got a more reasonable price...
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