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About LinkBacksThis issue got slashdotted, so no big shocker that there are newly registered people who wish to comment now is there?Originally Posted by GeorgeTuk
This issue got slashdotted, so no big shocker that there are newly registered people who wish to comment now is there?
Yeah, if all that would have changed from the previous system would be the new G80 in there, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the reviewer would have repeated the pricing complaints from the previous article?
At the end of the day mat bettinson (how many times did you manage to spell his name wrongly?) was rather abrupt with your request for another machine following your previous review, but at the same time he was also being honest with you. Rather than lying and saying they didn't have the machines to spare he let you know why his bosses didn't want him to give you any more kit.
He never offered kit in exchange for good reviews as you claimed and in the long run, the thing that is most likely to be remembered about this little spat is that this site decided to publish private emails when a company wouldn't give them any more free stuff.
I'd agree with that.
Let's please keep the debate free from accusations of bias.
There has been some well-reasoned stuff said here (including stuff that's knocked the opinion piece!) and I'd much prefer it if we debated the issues, not made assumptions about any poster's motives.
Last edited by Bob Crabtree; 31-10-2006 at 04:02 PM.
O yes a thick plot indeed......I do not visit this site, I have never heard of this site before. I only came here because I saw this story on Slashdot and was very interested. The way the article sounded was that AW indeed tried to buy a review I was "wow... thats not going to be good for their publicity." It wasn't until I read the article and the e-mails that I realized what AW was doing was nothing out of the ordinary and Hexus is overreacting.
Personally, yes, I would if I was looking at a new laptop. I like the looks of the laptops and those can easily be taken around when I am traveling, at school or at work. In my lifestyle I have no need for a fancy looking desktop because I do not take it anywhere (LAN parties for example). Some people, like those fancy desktops and have chances to show them off.
Of course other places offer warranties and are cheaper. The review was comparing individually bought parts, not an already configured computer. The individual parts are always cheaper than a preconfigured computer with a warranty.
Last edited by spud387; 31-10-2006 at 04:07 PM.
You over reacted in answering your emails.
As far as I can see alienware never brought your ethics into question they simply said that they were unable to send you more product for you to review.
You on the other hand said you would never have even asked for the product if you had known about your subordinate's request and then further on in your email called him a moron.
Right or wrong, your approach was, at the least, unprofessional.
Remember that people's reliance on your reviews are directly linked to how you interact with others.
Anyways. I enjoy your pieces and look forward to reading them in the future.
First, disclosure: I'm not a regular reader of Hexus (I found out about this news from a tech mailing list I'm on) and I don't buy Alienware (I prefer to build my own).
I'm really surprised to read about this. What on earth would possess a hardware review site to publish the private emails of a company that they are trying to do business with? If Hexus were actually in the right, it might make sense but in this case they've made a grave error. To my mind here's what happened:
1. Hexus ask Alienware for a PC to review.
1. Alienware give them a PC.
2. Hexus pan the PC, claiming that it is far too expensive.
3. Hexus ask Alienware for the same PC again, except with a more expensive newer graphics card.
4. Alienware say no - obviously if Hexus panned the previous PC because of its price, what will they say about the same machine with a brand-new next gen graphics card in it?
5. Hexus goes off on one, claiming Alienware are trying to bribe them and are acting illegally.
Hexus, you've really shot yourselves in the foot with this one. Live and learn, and hope Alienware don't sue you for publishing the emails without permission.
P.S. I would dearly love to know who the 'anonymous reader' that brought this story to Slashdot was.
Been lurking for a while on this one but I think I'd have to say I do think this hasn't been handled well by Hexus - accusations of lack of professionalism seem warranted (based on reading the emails). Certainly I'd have my head on the block if I acted that way in emails to a third party company here..
Alienware weren't perfect either but name-calling doesn't look good in any light - especially when it's in the written word. No offence intended, but that's my opinion based on the evidence presented - and i'm a hexus regular.
(off to hide)
Crosshair VIII Hero (WIFI), 3900x, 32GB DDR4, Many SSDs, EVGA FTW3 3090, Ethoo 719
To Teeth and dangel:-
I'm sorry, but unfortunatly i have to totaly dissagree with you both. Im my honest opinion i would feel gravely put out having bought a product based on research (HEXUS being one of many sources of research) to find that, on arrival of such product, it is infact something entirely different, whether it be performance or function. This in my eyes is an exreemly dangerouse ground for Ailienware to base there marketing srategy on. For one, by Law it is illegal to advertise a product as one thing and sell it as something else. This isn't directly the case, however such a strategy could be seen as a loop hole around such activity.
Looking at the review and article, it looks like alienware have simply refused to give hexus another machine with a G80 following a review where the price was repeatedly criticised, not the actual performance of the machine. This makes a lot of sense since other than the card the machine is fairly unchanged, so either it would be a review of a card (so goto nvidia) or the machine could get criticised again.
I'm not sure how you're opposed to my view Trevulate - my point was based _how_ it's been handled, not the issue of whether or not review sites should pander to the manufacturer (which I don't think they should btw). There's two issues here - first whether manufacturers should dictate review content and second, whether Hexus handled things professionally (or appropriately). It's this latter point I addressed, not the former.
Crosshair VIII Hero (WIFI), 3900x, 32GB DDR4, Many SSDs, EVGA FTW3 3090, Ethoo 719
Hexus DON'T misrepresent AW at all. Their representative clearly and explicitly stated that it was AW's policy to only send review kit to sites that will write nice things about AW.
No, the author stated that he'd like to think that AW's policy of only sending out kit where a favourable review was guaranteed was illegal in at least one jurisdiction and that as a consequence legal action would follow. Personally, I don't think it is likely to be, and I doubt that any action would follow. I also think that while exposing AW's stated policy is commendable, I wouldn't have brought the law into it at all. Their ethics alone speak volumes.
And if you really think that those boilerplate disclaimers actually mean very much, then you're naive in the extreme.
No, the author would like to believe that their policy of only sending review samples where a favourable review is guaranteed is illegal somewhere (as noted, I doubt that it is, but merely hoping that something is true is not the same as expecting others to believe that it is). As far as publishing the emails is concerned, that's called adducing evidence in support of your allegations.
Hexus' pitiful readership are hardware enthusiasts, gamers, professional users, all sorts of potentially high value customers, who are less likely to view an AW system favourably as a consequence of AWs stated policy and actions.
Perfectly good word if you ask me, and a perfectly good word for denoting puzzlement at the omission of a decent warranty as standard on a £3k machine. Look, we buy Dell Optiplexes at work, and the spend on a bog-stock C2D base unit is about £700. We could certainly buy a desktop cheaper, but we buy a premium range intended for corporate use, and a 3 year warranty is standard. The system reviewed is one that commands a hefty price premium; a decent length warranty should be standard. Hexus suggest building a 3 year warranty into the asking price and justify that by noting the likely reaction of AW's customers to being without their very costly machine for two weeks, and that seems a fair enough suggestion to me.
Whine? No. Sorry, seems to me as though the only whining is being done by the poster. Pointing out that the price point ought to allow for a higher specification to ship as standard isn't whining, it's noting an area where value falls short of what might reasonably be expected, and that's what a review is supposed to do.
Is this poster too retarded to understand the idea that the system as standard appeared overpriced? Stating that there's an option to make it even more expensive is hardly a positive.
Which is precisely what Hexus was suggesting that AW should have included, ("pre-overclocked cards") and what this dullard appears to have missed.
It's clear to me that this person is highly miffed that Hexus compared the AW system with a similarly specified system from another manufacturer and found that it was overpriced. Frankly, I'd expect Hexus to tell me that if I wanted to, I could get an equivalent system for a lot less.
I guess they don't like airflow being obstructed through a case full of hot components...
They do, and they point out specific areas where the specification as supplied seems value deficient.
Or buy a system from another manufacturer that WOULD include them at that price point. It's prefectly legitimate in a review which may affect whether people buy a product to note that the product as supplied seems overpriced or underspecified in comparison with similar products from other manufacturers, and EVERY reasonable print magazine does this too.
So paying even more to get an item that most manufacturers would include in a similar product at this price point would make them NOT morons...I see.
Yes, and noting that shopping elsewhere would get you the same spec for a lot less or a lot more spec for the same money is a prefectly reasonable thing to do, and something that I would expect ANY reasonable reviewer to consider. The cost of a system IS an important consideration; this poster appears to be demanding that regardless of cost, Hexus should shower AW with awards because they can put high-end components into a tarty case without leaving a thumb behind regardless of the final cost of the system. That's ridiculous.
They'd have liked it. They said so. And it's worth noting that from other manufacturers they could have got it for about the same cost.
This is frankly utter crap; when was the last time that ANYONE here saw a three grand system that didn't ship with a couple of optical drives as standard. It's a pretty glaring omission.
As opposed to a good aluminium case which again would be a reasonable expectation at this price point.
Again, paying more to make an already overly costly system even more expensive to buy something which it'd be reasonable to expect as standard.
Honesty can be a little unpalatable, it's true.
The machine they had is what AW supplied at a stated price point; and that price point appears extremely high for what you get. How is it wrong to note that?
Actually, most.
They are noting that at least part of that period AW would be obliged to provide as standard, so it's not as much a USP as it might appear at first blush.
So...effectively you're arguing here that a one-year CAR warranty and the cost of assembling some components and leaving them plugged in for a day is worth over a grand? That's the point - if the price differential is over a grand, then that warranty cover had better be pretty damned special; say a 3yr on-site warranty - oh, hang on, that'd be precisely what Hexus suggested, then. Muppet.
Apparently he does, though...
As Hexus did, noting that the components were standard, and the support offered as standard apparently lacking.
Like for like comparisons are PART of an honest review.
Or discerning buyers that wish to see whether something like an AW system justifies its extremely hefty premium.
As opposed to someone who appears to epitomise the old saw concerning the likely adhesion between fools and their financial resources.
Which ALL manufacturers have to comply with, including local ones, so no justification there.
Which again is charged on all systems, domestic and imported, so no justification there.
Funny...lots of other American companies do quite well at selling systems at absolute bargain prices, including, gosh, AW's parent company Dell...
Those'd be Dell's facilities at Bray, then. The same ones that they ship all their bargain systems to the UK from.
Except, as noted, that VAT and EU regulations apply to local manufacturers just the same, and AW's parent company, whoise Irish facilities they use, seem to cope just fine.
Whereas saying "Yay! It's great! No, really! Ignore the ridiculous pricetag!" would be fine, presumably. Stating that the system represents more than questionable value for money and using a like-for-like comparison to do so is a service to Hexus' readership. Perhaps if AW shipped better value systems, then they'd fare more favourably in such comparisons.
I think it's rather more telling that AW state that they will only send review equipment to sites that give them favourable reviews, but then I prefer honest assessments to gushing hagiography, especially when the hagiography glosses over things that are going to cost me more than they should.
Frankly, Spuddy, the entire post that you quote, I assume because you are in agreement with it, could have been drafted by any PR shill desperately trying to simultaneously blow smoke and sling mud in a desperate attempt to cover for an egregious blunder on the part of their sponsor/employer.
In my opinion..
1) It was valid to ask for another system as there is no real question of value when you are aiming for something unrivalled. The problem with the previous alienware system (in Hexus's view) was simply that it didn't offer anything extra for the money. Being the first system with G80 would be something extra.
2) Lots of companies do similar.
3) They may not be as blatent about it though.
4) It's still valid journalism to find out which ones do and report such.
5) Certain emails could certainly have been written more professionally.
6) At least the email chain was published verbatim so we public could make our own minds up.
7) Hexus Opinions is about exactly that - opinions and it's a deliberate function of Hexus to allow people to debate things. It doesn't matter who the 'anonymous reader' to slashdot was - there was evidently enough to talk about that people from slashdot have been interested enough to come over here and a) read the article, b) post their opinion. Both basic roles that Hexus seeks to encourage.
Hi Trevulate. If this issue was about Alienware advertising one thing and delivering quite another to its customers in the box you would have a point. However it isn't.. they are quite within their rights to give or refuse hardware to review sites as they see fit.
Likewise, sites like Hexus are within their rights to write opinion pieces stating that they think Alienware machines are over-priced, or state that they asked for a machine to review but were refused.
As Dangel has said, what is at issue here is the manner in which Hexus has gone about this - the publishing of the marketing guy's emails, the unprofessional responses to him, and the attempt to blatently captialise on it - "Even a creature from outer space should know you can't buy a good review on HEXUS" come on seriously!
From my reading of the emails, the only change would be the card though, so it would be opening up alienware for a repeat of the previous review or even more since they could now say that the rest of the components don't match up to the card or something similar.
Personally, they haven't made me an more or less likely to buy an alienware (I wouldn't pay the markup personally), but after reading that article I would be less inclined to consider the writer to be mature and objective in future reviews and would be less likely to read stuff on here in the future.7) Hexus Opinions is about exactly that - opinions and it's a deliberate function of Hexus to allow people to debate things. It doesn't matter who the 'anonymous reader' to slashdot was - there was evidently enough to talk about that people from slashdot have been interested enough to come over here and a) read the article, b) post their opinion. Both basic roles that Hexus seeks to encourage.
the daftest thing about all this is that the original reviewer felt the need to go on about the price, its not like this is a shocker and is usually covered by most reviewers in the closing comments or conclusion since anyone with more than a passing acquaintance with computers already knows it anyway and needing to beat us over the head with the point insults the intelligence of the readers.
i think it was more of what was missing for the extre premium your paying for the system
Maybe 90% of Hexus readers, perhaps. But probably less than 10% of the computer using public.
And let's face it, you have to know which parts to buy to build the PC as well. That takes research, and in some cases trial and error.
--miw
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