Legacy connectors, are they of any value to the enthusiast of today?

[aidanjt]

Ironically, small systems line the mini, nano and pico systems maid be VIA are probably more likely to utilise these legacy ports, even though they desperately need the space they would free up. The reason for this? embeded systems.

Embedded *especially* don't need 'em. If it has an RJ45 or IEEE802.11x interface, it can run an SSH daemon, that's all that's needed for complete device interaction.

[jackvdbuk]

they need to create a market for people not needing such things e.g. the gamers market/enthusiast. OK i lied, there is... but why on earth is the differnce between the markets connectivity not differnt?

its not hard to have a completly SATA only system, IDE is old school and the price differnce between a IDE/SATA drive is negligible..

people moaning about ps/2 keyboards/mice can get an adapter but again the gaming PC people probly have a gaming mouse/kb setup which uses USB.

no one uses parallel anymore, all usb/RJ45 printers now..

serial im not sure what its used for (back in the day)

now thats removed most of the crunk no one uses there can be room for more cooler things or more of what everyone uses like SATA ports, USB, Wireless..

[Funkstar]

Embedded *especially* don't need 'em. If it has an RJ45 or IEEE802.11x interface, it can run an SSH daemon, that's all that's needed for complete device interaction.

I was actually meaning for embeded control applications, like being hooked up to legacy robotics, measurment, calibration, or monitoring systems. Thats the kind of application what is still going to need parallel and serial outputs, and floppy and IDE inputs.

[spiral out]

We still use the serial port at the school i work at, to hook up the interactive whiteboards that we use, we can use usb but they tend to lose connection some of the time where as serial just works.

[merdat]

Yes, serial ports are still required especially by guys who work with comms stuff. Some of the most advanced optical kit out there still uses serial ports for breaking into the 'management programming menus.

[Paul Adams]

PS/2 ports
Sometimes navigating the BIOS on some systems isn't possible with a USB keyboard (especially after a BIOS update and it switches back to "USB support: OS" so the keyboard won't work until the OS has booted and has a driver loaded).
Also a manual crash dump from Windows is driven through the i8024prt.sys driver and USB keyboards can't be used for that.
No need for a PS/2 mouse port, though.

PATA/IDE controllers
I can live without those connectors for modern PCs - the capacity, speed, tidier cabling and lower power consumption for SATA is much better - and if you're doing an upgrade to a modern PC you will most likely want a faster/larger disk.

FDD controllers
All the machines I have built for the last few years have not had a FDD, and even those I ordered pre-built from Komplett have USB card readers instead.
I do have a USB FDD in case it's ever required - only used it for BIOS updates for those systems without EZ-Flash.

Integrated graphics & DSUB
Actually, I'm of the opposite opinion on the DSUB issue - I think it is much easier to see an device is analog if it is a DSUB rather than DVI-A.
Analag output -> DSUB
Digital/Analog output -> DVI-I (DVI-DSUB adapter can be used for analog devices)

Serial ports
Live debugging is only possible over serial ports on some operating systems, and finding a null modem cable is hard enough these days - I have a problem when some customers' servers have zero serial ports and a live debug is needed to investigate an issue.
One is enough, however.

Parallel ports
Went the way of the dodo years ago, same as FDD - personally I like my wifi printer.

[Naggallywoo]

Some motherboards come with PCI back plates with legacy connectors on them, they do still connect to pins on the motherboard however, would it not be possible to them to use the actual PCI slot, saving space on the motherboard, wouldn’t be as cheap to produce perhaps but would there be compatibly problems?

[s3ds]

keep them

the only one i have not used in a while is the serial
infact i had to buy a parallel port for this pc to use a software lock
some one said £16 for a sata wont brake the bank - maybe but for 10 PC's its £160 !

If it aint broke don't fix it !

[nvening]

May i just point out that all these issues over getting rid of floppy drives and ps/2 ports because of bios issues are void because unless mobo manufacturers are stupid they would enable usb support for keyboards/ flashing etc.

[aidanjt]

Indeed, as I have said. These legacy requirement issues would drop off if motherboard manufacturers have proper USB implementations.

There's also plenty of cited examples of where serial is still used for commercial product interfaces and software, but this is an example of vendors not letting a dead duck lay, and generally not a concern of a PC user, much less an enthusiast PC user.

I see a lot of people have mixed feelings about it. But overall the general consensus seems to be to get rid.

[merdat]

Certainly an odd poll considering the amount of people that have shown an interest in retaining some of the legacy connectors -only 2 for and one of them was moi.

[aidanjt]

some one said £16 for a sata wont brake the bank - maybe but for 10 PC's its £160 !

That doesn't make any sense, if you're building 10 new computers then you need 10 more optical drives, if you buy PATA drives you pay the same money, why would you buy an optical drive that uses an inferior interface for the same money? And this line of 'reasoning' is irrelevant to an enthusiast who is willing to pay £200-600 on a graphics card, and discard it 6-12 months later for a newer model.

If it aint broke don't fix it !

It is broken, and the idea isn't to fix it, but to ignore it. All these legacy connectors take up a lot of pin/trace space on the motherboard, which could be better spent on wider rail and signal traces to improve overall stability in overclocking and better, modern, generic connectors.

As I've said, if people have a genuine need for legacy connectors, they can buy a legacy add-in board.

[aidanjt]

Certainly an odd poll considering the amount of people that have shown an interest in retaining some of the legacy connectors -only 2 for and one of them was moi.

That is rather odd, isn't it?

[chrestomanci]

Again, less than £16 for a PATA DVD burner. Not breaking the bank compared to the money for the other components of a new build.

It is not always about the money, but about throwing away perfectly good hardware just because the motherboard manufacturer has omitted the interface. In any case when I am choosing a new motherboard, the price gap between the ones I am considering is usualy much less than £16. There is not much point in saving £5 on the cost of a board so you can spend £16 on a SATA burner.

The same applies to hard drives. The largest PATA drive I own is 400Gb. Not as big as the the norm these days, but definitely to small to discard as junk. I don't know about you, but I pretty much never build an entirely new PC. Instead I upgrade bit by bit. My current PC only has the mouse in common with the one I had 5 years ago, but at no point did I buy a completely new PC.

Your other reason for not liking legacy is the space it takes up on the board, but I say that there is plenty of space on an ATX board. Not that long ago enthusiast boards came with 6 or more PATA connectors for RAID, and they all fitted. As for the I/O panel, the only connector I would advocate removing for space reasons is the parallel printer port. All the others justify the space they use, including the serial port. (It is not just used for modems). In general when I see a board stripped of legacy back panel connectors, the space is not used for something else. It is usually blank space or occasionally a tinny little 40mm fan.

If you where arguing that legacy ports should be omitted for cost reasons on low cost boards then I would probably agree with you (Each of those connectors adds about 20p to the cost of a board because it is fiddly to solder on), but that argument holds no weight for enthusiast boards.

[daza]

Ps/2 for the keyboard HAS to be saved the amount of times an overclock has failed and the only way to recover is bang a ps-2 keyboard in is silly its a god send.

[aidanjt]

It is not always about the money, but about throwing away perfectly good hardware just because the motherboard manufacturer has omitted the interface. In any case when I am choosing a new motherboard, the price gap between the ones I am considering is usualy much less than £16. There is not much point in saving £5 on the cost of a board so you can spend £16 on a SATA burner.

Do you make a habit of tossing all your old motherboards and CPUs in the bin?.. I know I don't, I either stow them for a later date when I may need it, or sell it.

The same applies to hard drives. The largest PATA drive I own is 400Gb. Not as big as the the norm these days, but definitely to small to discard as junk. I don't know about you, but I pretty much never build an entirely new PC. Instead I upgrade bit by bit. My current PC only has the mouse in common with the one I had 5 years ago, but at no point did I buy a completely new PC.

Being that incremental upgrades (unless done on a very regular basis) are impossible these days, yes, I just build a new computer. And it's better for me to do it that way because I don't have an old PC with bits missing out of it that I could otherwise make use for.

Your other reason for not liking legacy is the space it takes up on the board, but I say that there is plenty of space on an ATX board. Not that long ago enthusiast boards came with 6 or more PATA connectors for RAID, and they all fitted. As for the I/O panel, the only connector I would advocate removing for space reasons is the parallel printer port. All the others justify the space they use, including the serial port. (It is not just used for modems). In general when I see a board stripped of legacy back panel connectors, the space is not used for something else. It is usually blank space or occasionally a tinny little 40mm fan.

If you where arguing that legacy ports should be omitted for cost reasons on low cost boards then I would probably agree with you (Each of those connectors adds about 20p to the cost of a board because it is fiddly to solder on), but that argument holds no weight for enthusiast boards.

If you read the thread carefully, I point out multiple reasons for dropping them, and to summerise:

They take up back I/O panel space and motherboard space where it could be used for more modern and useful connections. Or, as you point out, better power distribution component cooling
They take up pin and trace space on the motherboard that could be better utilised for stability and power delivery.
They require larger, more complex, and more expensive Super I/O chips.
Leaner, and cleaner board designs are cheaper, and easier to design, test, and produce, with less possible cross interference issues.

Trying to be all things, to all people, is impossible, that's why PCI and PCIe slots are on motherboards. You wouldn't want antenna out on your Blu-ray player to watch HD movies, why are PCs laden with the same cruft?