Nvidia future bleak?

[Cichlidash]

I am just wondering what the future for Nvidia is going to be, they seem to only be able to try and retaliate to ATI's 48XX series of cards by releasing slightly updated versions of old chips.

The 280 is currently their flag ship card and is the fastest single gpu card on the market, however it is clearly beaten by the 4870x2. You can pick up a cheap 280 for around £300 while the 4870x2 is priced around £350 so a direct comparison can not really be made, however the 4850x2 is just around the corner will also beat the 280 will come with 2 gig of ram and should be around £220-240. Which will leave Nividia flag ship card not only slower but also way more expensive.
Nivida are aslo at the moment beaten in every other price bracket to power ration all the way down their range 260 vs 4870, 4850 vs 9800GTX+ and it goes on down the list.

All we has seen is price cuts from Nvidia and a increase in cores on the 260 range, yet to me at least all these counters have fallen short of bringing Nvidia's range of products to be competitive with ATI.

So has Nvidia had its day now or what and when do you think they will be able to make a credible retaliation to Ati?

[Jay]

The same was really true of ATI last year, this is how it goes. It swings from one to the other.

[tensim]

Wasn't everyone saying the same thing about ATI back when the 8800GT and 8800GTX ruled the roost? I'm sure Nvidia will come back with something, it's just that it's currently ATI's turn to shine.

You know, thinking about it, I sometimes suspect company's that compete in the same marketplace with the same product (though maybe doing things in a different way to achieve the same result) work it this way. Think Canon & Nikon, Nvidia & ATI, Intel & AMD etc etc

It's not really in eithers interest to both have a product out at the same time that is exactly the same in real world performance. It's better for both (long-term) to take it in turns to dominate. Of course, it's most likely just the way R & D works though, rather than a big fat corporate conspiracy Bit like an arms race really...

Just means we all end up switching every few months to get the latest and greatest! good for the economy in'it

[Agent]

Everything you have said in that post is talking about high end cards, which make up a tiny percentage of the market.

The fastest card out is really irrelevant in terms of revenue to either ATi or nVidia. The money is in low / mid and OEM ranges.

by releasing slightly updated versions of old chips.

Which is the smart thing to do. If you have a chip that can be modified to make it faster it makes sense.
Almost no R&D cost to it, production lines are already in place, in some cases PCB's don't need to be changed either. The number of people that actually care what is in their PC is so small it's not even worth considering. To almost everyone, raw speed is the important part.

[Cichlidash]

While it maybe a smart move to update your current graphics chip if it results in a card that counters its oposition, this is clearly not the case with the 260 though at least at the moment. It resulted in a card thats more expensive and still carries the same name as its older tech resulting in confusion for the customers.
The new 260 is currently around the prices that the 4850x2 will be and that means that its going to be totally outclassed soon. So really this move by Nvidia is totally mute.

[Agent]

While it maybe a smart move to update your current graphics chip if it results in a card that counters its oposition, this is clearly not the case with the 260 though at least at the moment. It resulted in a card thats more expensive and still carries the same name as its older tech resulting in confusion for the customers.

And how does any of this equate to a bleak future for nVidia?

The new 260 is currently around the prices that the 4850x2 will be and that means that its going to be totally outclassed soon. So really this move by Nvidia is totally mute.

And you think nVidia will just sit on their hands?

The 'tooing and frowing' happens between a huge number of company's in the computer industry. I can't see any point you're brining up that shows that the current situation is anything different.

[Will404]

What about a 280X2 , 4 of them would give you 8 GPU's

[AdamAnubis]

Just because nvidia are 'mute' is more likely to mean they are working hard behind the scenes. ATI have produced a card which can rival, and win, against nvidia. They are going to be working their asses off to produce a card that will wipe the floor with them. They got complacent with the 8800's, which is arguably why the 9 series were a bit naff, they didn't need to make them super because there was nothing to rival it.
Of course, ATI are probably working on a supercard to compete with nvidias super card.

If you also look at the amount of sponsoring that nvidia gets, and the amount of support it gets - It's not exactly on it's last legs. They probably have loads of money to pile into research and new cards.

ATI might also be caught up with keeping everything running because of the huge success. It's given nvidia a break to work behind the scenes. ATI will be expected to maintain the level of quality and performance they have given.

[Cichlidash]

Agent I take it then that you think that releasing two products with the same name, like they have done is a good move by Nvidia? Also the only real counter in terms of hardware they have produced the 260 (216 core) and the 9800GTX+ are not capable or will not be capable of competing with AtI line up does not mean that Nvidia are going to have a bit of a nightmare currently going on? If the 4850x2 does perform as most people predict then their will be no reason to currently buy a Nvidia card over an ATI at any level in the market. Now to me that is not a good situation to for Nvidia to be in.

AdamAnubis I am sure that Nvidia have a lot of money to put into research but leading graphics card companies have fallen fairly quickly in the past and gone bankrupt, just look to the likes of Voodoo for example. Also the current financial situation is going to hit every company hard.

Not that I would like anything to happen to Nvidia I still run a Nvidia card myself and have never had an issue with it.

A 280x2 would be an amazing card if they actually existed, however they do not also I would imagine the price of a 280x2 would be way above anything else on the market if they was ever produced, making them only really available too an elite sector with way too much money to spend on a graphics card. Still such people will exist but again given the way the economy is at the moment I would not see a 280x2 selling enough to really be called a company saviour.

What Nvidia really need is a new product that can offer some sort of rivalry to Ati and I have yet to hear even a whisper of anything of the such.

[Hicks12]

Agent I take it then that you think that releasing two products with the same name, like they have done is a good move by Nvidia? Also the only real counter in terms of hardware they have produced the 260 (216 core) and the 9800GTX+ are not capable or will not be capable of competing with AtI line up does not mean that Nvidia are going to have a bit of a nightmare currently going on? If the 4850x2 does perform as most people predict then their will be no reason to currently buy a Nvidia card over an ATI at any level in the market. Now to me that is not a good situation to for Nvidia to be in.

AdamAnubis I am sure that Nvidia have a lot of money to put into research but leading graphics card companies have fallen fairly quickly in the past and gone bankrupt, just look to the likes of Voodoo for example. Also the current financial situation is going to hit every company hard.

Not that I would like anything to happen to Nvidia I still run a Nvidia card myself and have never had an issue with it.

A 280x2 would be an amazing card if they actually existed, however they do not also I would imagine the price of a 280x2 would be way above anything else on the market if they was ever produced, making them only really available too an elite sector with way too much money to spend on a graphics card. Still such people will exist but again given the way the economy is at the moment I would not see a 280x2 selling enough to really be called a company saviour.

What Nvidia really need is a new product that can offer some sort of rivalry to Ati and I have yet to hear even a whisper of anything of the such.

The thing is Ati ARE not that great, they are good as are the nvidia cards the only thing special is that it is a shock ati got bk on level. The 4870 and gtx 260(original version) are roughly the same price(gtx cheaper iirc) and offer similar performance and so its a matter of, power and heat along with driver support which both fail in but windows is ok. Ati cards use more on idle than the counter part but less on load so if its just for gaming(alot) then you would go with the ati card but if its for casual gaming the gtx260 wins right?.

R+D takes its time so you cant say nvidia are dead in the future as you could say that about any company e.g Intel, could the i7 be their last cpu? maybe but unlikely so its the same concept apart from Intel is competing with itself(hence why its still on top) but nvidia sat on their asses and tried to milk the tech which is FINE because they deserve to just like when ATI was on top and thats how they lost it by not keeping up(i think xD).

Electronics/computing is a VERY unsteady market as new tech is around the corner all the time and not all of it gets leak so who knows ATI and NVIDIA might have suprt cards coming out tomorrow but you dont know.


The future isnt bleak, id expect AMD to be more bleak since they have been making HUGE losses for ages(i hope they get bk) so they made less loss this time but is it enough?

[strike-down]

The future isnt bleak, id expect AMD to be more bleak since they have been making HUGE losses for ages(i hope they get bk) so they made less loss this time but is it enough?

Nvidia will have a trick up their sleeve in the gtx 380 when it comes out. Its always the way. And I also think AMD are more in the poo than Nvidia are, look at the recent manufacturing spinoffs done by amd to save on costs.

[AdamAnubis]

AdamAnubis I am sure that Nvidia have a lot of money to put into research but leading graphics card companies have fallen fairly quickly in the past and gone bankrupt, just look to the likes of Voodoo for example. Also the current financial situation is going to hit every company hard.

I understand this, I guess what I was trying to say is nvidia have got further to fall. They have a buffer zone of money before things get critical, where AMD may not have. It will just hit some companies harder than others, and nvidia seem to have the sponsoring and such like to be more stable and take more hits before they 'go under'.

[strike-down]

Dont forget aswell that nvidia has the quadro series keeping them afloat

[Cichlidash]

The 4870 is a fair bit cheaper than the 260 both the old and new version as you can get the 4870 for about £168 where as the old 260 seem to be around £200 at the moment and the newer version is around £207-230 mark a fairly big difference in price.
Performance wise it does seem the 4870 is between the old and new version of the 260 and most people buying this level of card I would imagine are looking for a gaming card as their is a lot of lesser cards on both sides that will totally suit a casual gamer. The thing is with the 4850x2 due out soon the and hopefully around the newer 260 price range but with more speed than a 280 then Nvidia really wont have much to compete with. I hope that it results in a massive cut in 280's and 260's again both are very good cards, I certainly would not mind either if the price was right.

[Agent]

Agent I take it then that you think that releasing two products with the same name, like they have done is a good move by Nvidia?

Not at all. In fact I was complaining about it in the news thread if you have a search
But again, I simply can't see how this can be used as evidence for nvidia having a bleak future?

Also the only real counter in terms of hardware they have produced the 260 (216 core) and the 9800GTX+ are not capable or will not be capable of competing with AtI line up does not mean that Nvidia are going to have a bit of a nightmare currently going on? If the 4850x2 does perform as most people predict then their will be no reason to currently buy a Nvidia card over an ATI at any level in the market. Now to me that is not a good situation to for Nvidia to be in.

As above, who is in the 'lead' swaps all the time. nVidia have been around for a long time, and there would be major ripples in the industry if something was going to happen to them soon.
With most of the money being in low end hardware and midrange... is the future bleak for nVidia? No, not by a long shot. They have been in much worse positions (Geforce FX anyone?)

[BerZerk]

As long NVIDIA is not manu faulty cards...then they should be fine...
So many of them are still around in ppl pc and laptops... hehehe