HTPC Spec please

[GaryRW]

That'd be a valid comparison if the AMD tested was a 45nm Athlon II on a 785G chipset: but it's not. It's a Brisbane core 65nm K8 on a 790GX chipset. Your link, while interesting, is really irrelevant to the question under discussion. The setup were are suggesting will have completely different power characteristics. By all means suggest alternatives, but please don't link to misleading irrelevancies, it only muddies the waters...

I think ta2 might have been referring to the bottom graph, where xbitlabs is suggesting that the e3200/e3300 only uses around 20w when on full load. They reckon they were measuring the power draw of the CPU itself (and only the CPU), though I am sure I've seen others query the method xbitlads used. Obviously I won't be able to find the link now

I have been looking for an nvidia 9300/9400 motherboard for some time on the basis of that supposed power draw, but those boards seem even harder to get hold of than a 235e/240e!

[scaryjim]

I have been looking for an nvidia 9300/9400 motherboard for some time on the basis of that supposed power draw, but those boards seem even harder to get hold of than a 235e/240e!

Not only that, they can be hideously expensive - I remember when 780G came out I did a hint around and most 9300 / 9400 boards were > £80.

Ebuyer currently have an MSI version for £60. Otherwise you're looking at about £80+.

EDIT: OK, I've done the rounds of a few 9300 reviews and they basically all seem to show it being pretty frugal in powet terms, comfortably on a par with, or better than, the comparitive Intel and AMD platforms. Assuming the power figures for E3200 are reliable (I have to say I'm rather dubious about them, though) it looks like a good combination... I'd certainly be interested to see it in a Zotac mini-itx 9300 board

[GaryRW]

it looks like a good combination... I'd certainly be interested to see it in a Zotac mini-itx 9300 board

so would I - hence this thread: http://forums.hexus.net/scan-care-he...-revision.html

adsmithy - sorry for the thread hijacking!! hopefully this is interesting to you too! EDIT: you did say quiet, & low power usually = lower noise

[adsmithy]

I'm a bit confused now. Is the spec ta2 suggested better then the one I put together?

Another question.

- Case remote control.
I've noticed some more expensive cases come with a remote. Would this be to turn the computer on? I will be turning it off at night, so a remote to turn it on again would be handy.

Thanks again,
Adrian

[ta2]

I'm a bit confused now. Is the spec ta2 suggested better then the one I put together?

Another question.

- Case remote control.
I've noticed some more expensive cases come with a remote. Would this be to turn the computer on? I will be turning it off at night, so a remote to turn it on again would be handy.

Thanks again,
Adrian

Regarding the remote. On my S350 TV card the case power button connects straight to the card, then the card connects the the motherboard. I am assuming that if I bought a Windows MCE remote I could turn the computer on and off using this. Don't quote me on that though, do a bit of googling.

If the case comes with a remote then yes almost definately that would be to turn the computer on and off. I guess it would connect to a USB port and the power switch pins on the motherboard.

Here is a review which compares the exact processor you previously suggested (AMD Athlon II X2 240) with the Pentium Dual-Core E5200. The E5200 is EXACTLY the same as the E3200 which I suggest except it is 2.5GHz instead of 2.4GHz and has 2MB cache instead of 1MB. Power consumption voltage, FSB should all be identical clock-for-clock.

Apart from this review being extremely biased (they under-volt the X2, then compared it to the stock voltage E5200 - and even then it only equals the E5200), it shows that the performance of the two chips is nearly identical.

If you have a look in this thread I posted, you can see that the E3200 overclocks to 4GHz (from 2.4GHz, that's +66%) very easily and within intel's official guidelines, whilst that review shows they only got a +35% overclock whilst sticking without AMD's official guidelines.

If you don't want to mess around with overclocking or undervolting then the E3200 wins hands down on power and is equal on performance. If you don't mind messing around with them, the E3200 wins hands down both on performance and power.

P.S. As a very crude measurement, we have one of those things you attach to your mains power cable by the fuse box which measures power. The following spec uses around 110W under full processor load or about 70W at idle (overclocked to 4Ghz):

E3200
MSI P45C Neo-FIR
9400GT
Spinpoint F1 750GB
2xSeagate 250GB
4 case fans
DVD
TV card
sound card

[GaryRW]

I'm a bit confused now. Is the spec ta2 suggested better then the one I put together?

Another question.

- Case remote control.
I've noticed some more expensive cases come with a remote. Would this be to turn the computer on? I will be turning it off at night, so a remote to turn it on again would be handy.

Thanks again,
Adrian

Re the spec ta2 suggested, I would personally say the difference between the AMD and intel solutions for HTPC's aren't huge. (I have been struggling to chose as I am getting hung up on trying to get it as low power as possible). You may need to look very carefully if you are interested in true home theatre stuff. E.g. if you want audio bit-streaming you need to make sure what you get covers it. most motherboards don't cope with bit streaming, or whatever it's called. I'm not into HD stuff yet, so goes over my head to a large extent

ta2 did link to a G41 chipset board, and iirc you need the G45 to offload decoding work to the graphics processor. If you want intel, then I think you need either a intel G45 board or a nvidia 9300/9400 board, the latter being very thin on the ground. AMD is easy - as others have said, a 785g board and if you can wait a bit, a Athlon XII 240e.

For general computing on a budget, I think the set up ta2 suggested would be good, but personally I think for a HTPC overclocking is not necessarily a great idea. power & heat goes up exponentially with higher voltage (i think that's right) and in a HTPC more heat generally = more noise. But like I said, I've got a hang up on getting it low power

Re a remote turning the computer on, I'm not sure about remotes booting the machine up, but most remotes should be able to wake the computer up from sleep (s3 sleep). That was a big problem with a zotac board recently - they cut the usb power when the board was put asleep, so remotes, mice etc... couldn't wake the machine up. Most motherboards though should be able to do it. And if you get sleep working well, you only have to wait for it to wake up (a few seconds) rather than booting from scratch.

Slight tangent I know, but my pc at least uses next to nothing asleep. Only 3 or 4 watts, and it uses 2 or 3 even when it's off but still plugged in. That's what I'm planning for the HTPC, rather than booting from cold.

[BubbySoup]

I've built several HTPC's for various friends and family and always fall back to 785G boards after trying various combinations. They just work so well for what they need to do with the minimum number of components plugged into them. It's only downfall is LPCM via HDMI - you'll need a discrete card for that, but then you will whichever motherboard you choose.

The power differences between Intel/AMD are negligible and overclocking a HTPC is simply a waste of time. Any modern CPU can be underclocked to 1GHz and still handle HTPC duties.

My current HTPC is based around a 785G board connected to my Samsung 46" 8 series LED TV - I have absolutely no issues with it and wouldn't hesitate to recommend a 785G board.

[adsmithy]

I think I'll go 785g and wait for the AMD 240e to become available. Any ideas when Scan are going to start stocking it?

[ta2]

I think I'll go 785g and wait for the AMD 240e to become available. Any ideas when Scan are going to start stocking it?

Probably around 2 weeks as that is when LambdaTek are supposed to be getting them.

[UseItNow]

Ebuyer currently have an MSI version for £60.

Unfortunately, it's out of stock now, would have been great for my HTPC build, ahhhhhhhhhh!

[adsmithy]

240e available for pre-order now.

I've put together the following spec, any thoughts?


Qty Link No. Description Scansure
Available Ex VAT Inc VAT
LN21995

Antec NSK2480-UK V2 Desktop Media Centre Case for uATX with 380W Earthwatts 80%+ Eff PSU £73.95 £85.04
LN27699

2GB Corsair DDR3 PC3-10600 (1333) 240 Pin, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 9-9-9-24 £30.10 £34.62
LN28200

Asus M4A785D-M PRO, AMD 785G, AM3/2+/2, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 1200/1066/800, SATA 3Gb/s RAID, uATX, VGA £50.39 £57.95
LN28746

1TB Samsung HD103SJ Spinpoint F3, SATA 3Gb/s, 7200rpm, 32MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ, OEM £53.89 £61.97
LN29655

AMD Athlon II X2 240e Energy Efficient Dual Core, S AM3, 2.8GHz, 2MB Cache, 45W, Retail £52.32 £60.17


Recalculate Basket

Net Total

Carriage

VAT
£260.65

£9.43

£40.51
Total£310.59

I already have a TV card and DVD drive sorted.

I now need to find a good media remote control..

There is an "Evo" version of the motherboard I have chosen. It is more expensive, can run faster memory, but doesn't have HDCP.. Am I right in my choice?

Thanks,
adsmithy

[crazyfool]

You would need hdcp for watching blu rays or you could use anydvdhd, unless you wont be watching blu rays, then just ignore this

[ta2]

MSI P7NGM-Digital Geforce 9300 730i - http://www.ebuyer.com/product/151370 - £60
Intel Pentium Dual Core E6300 2.8GHz - http://www.ebuyer.com/product/167118 - £57
or
Intel Celeron E3200 Socket 775 2.4GHz - http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173865 - £34

That mobo has DVI, HDMI and PureVideo HD. I think it also has HDCP but can't verify that on the official site.

[InkZ]

Definately a 785g and a low power athlon. Running a 4450e on mine.

Building a second HTPC atm for the bedroom and I already have a dual core pentium D and have decided on the MSI board in the post above as I like onboard decoding and that has the benefit of CUDA as well.

[will101]

I have also just ordered a 785G Gigabyte board. I was umming and ahhing between this and the ASUS Evo but went with the Gigabyte as the onboard sound chip got good reviews here.

Due to launch day pricing and unavailability of the 'e' Athlon IIs I went for an X3 425 as the temptation of possibly having a quad core for £53 was too much to resist! Even though it's a 95W TDP part, with Cool 'n' Quiet enabled and mainly running Media Centre I don't see it using too much juice plus I've got the grunt should I need it.

[ta2]

I have also just ordered a 785G Gigabyte board. I was umming and ahhing between this and the ASUS Evo but went with the Gigabyte as the onboard sound chip got good reviews here.

Due to launch day pricing and unavailability of the 'e' Athlon IIs I went for an X3 425 as the temptation of possibly having a quad core for £53 was too much to resist! Even though it's a 95W TDP part, with Cool 'n' Quiet enabled and mainly running Media Centre I don't see it using too much juice plus I've got the grunt should I need it.

In terms of bang for buck you're getting the best there is. You might even get lucky and have a perfectly good 4th core. As for power consumption you're out of luck...

Edit: Actually the idle consumption, which I guess is what you'll be at 99+% of the time (if you're offloading decoding to the GPU), is pretty good.