Ongoing problems with Shuttle SB95Pv2 - random lockups

[codice]

Hello all.

I apologize in advance by the rather lengthy post, but I'm wondering if anyone has run into the same type of issues I have with my newly-built Shuttle SB95Pv2.
I've posted in the past regarding possible heat issues with one of my hard drives, but I was able to correct the problem by properly venting the case. The current issue, however, is much more critical and frustrating than anything I can think of.
Here is the system configuration:

- Shuttle SB95P v2
- Intel P4 3.2GHz with 2MB cache (640 edition)
- 1GB OCZ Platinum Enhanced Rev. 2 Limited Edition DDR2-PC4200 (model OCZ25331024EBPER2)
- Sapphire Radeon X850XT 256MB GDDR3
- Samsung SP1213C 120GB / 8MB cache / 7200rpm SATA drive
- Maxtor 7Y250M0 250GB / 8MB cache / 7200rpm SATA drive
- LG 16x Dual Layer DVD burner model GSA-4163BK

Nothing is overclocked. I'm using all the current drivers from Shuttle and Intel for the motherboard/chipset, and Sapphire for the graphics card. Nothing is overheating, all the cables are properly seated, Windows was patched to the latest recommended patches. The hard drives are brand new, SMART reports no errors with 100% fitness on both, and I am able to run HDTach on them w/o any problems.
The video card performs flawlessly in 3DSmark03 and 05 and in games (WoW and CS:S).

During the past week or so, my Shuttle will randomly lock up and then reboot itself, often times resulting in a CHKDSK upon reboot, and in at least three instances, serious file corruption. These crashes have randomly ocurred while playing World of Warcraft, moving some files from the OS disk to the data disk, running Aquamark, or just sitting idle.

Here are the symptoms:
1) I can usually tell when the Shuttle is going to die on me, because the drive activity LED in front will light up, the Shuttle freezes, and stays lit the entire time the box reboots itself. Oddly enough, the mouse can still be moved around the screen, but of course, you can't click on anything.

2) During the reboot, everything is painfully slow, taking as long as 5 minutes just to get to the Windows login screen. Once I log in, everything is still painfully slow, and it's almost impossible to do anything. The drive activity light will stay lit during this entire process.

3) I can sometimes try to shutdown the system, which takes another 5 minutes, and power it off. Once I power it back on, everything seems back to normal.

4) The Windows system log has a number of instances where Windows complains that it can't read off the main disk, and reports a timeout message. These are random, and they don't coincide with all the crashes, but I believe they're definitely part of the problem.


Just last night, I upgraded the BIOS on the Shuttle to the new version posted on Shuttle's support site in hopes that it would help fix this problem. The new BIOS is available here. . There was no change in the system, and it actually crashed last night, forcing me to reinstall Windows XP. This morning, I woke up to find that the executable that manages the login process for Windows XP (lsass.exe) is corrupt, so I can't even log in anymore. Safe mode also doesn't work, which means I'll have to, once again, reinstall the OS.

So, after this lenghty ramble, I'm wondering if anyone has been having similar issues, or am I just a very unlucky person. If you ha(ve/d) these problems, how did you fix them, or are you still looking for help?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

-------------------------
- Shuttle SB95P v2
- Intel P4 3.2GHz with 2MB cache (640 edition)
- 1GB OCZ Platinum Enhanced Rev. 2 Limited Edition DDR2-PC4200 (model OCZ25331024EBPER2)
- Sapphire Radeon X850XT 256MB GDDR3 (OEM)
- Samsung SP1213C 120GB / 8MB cache / 7200rpm SATA drive
- Maxtor 7Y250M0 250GB / 8MB cache / 7200rpm SATA drive
- LG 16x Dual Layer DVD burner model GSA-4163BK

[Stephen B]

get an x800 or a 6800gt

mine was locking up and rebooting till I took out my brand new Dell 850XTPE, now it is fine for last 6 hours, no lockups at all

[MD]

As stephen says, the X500Xt is not a card that is approved by Shuttle for use in the device, in all honesty, if you are a gamer, a shuttle is not for you.

m@

[menthel]

I'm a gamer and my old shuttle whizzes along perfectly with an overclocked 2500 xpm and a 6800gt in it! However x850xtpe and 6800ultras are a bit much. There is a lot for a gamer in a SFF box though.

[codice]

Hello all.

I was able to isolate the problem to a damaged SATA cable. The SATA cable plugged between the motherboard and the primary disk was apparently damaged when they zip-tied it and the power cables to the Shuttle's chassis.
I replaced it with a better quality cable and I'm happy to say the system is currently rock-solid, even after 14 hours of non-stop benchmarking and burn-in testing, followed by several multi-hour-long gaming sessions and protein folding.
Thank you for all of the replies. I will try to address them one at a time.

Stephen B:

- Thanks for the advice, however, as I mentioned in my post, the problem I was experiencing was not related to the video card, but to the main OS disk randomly 'dropping off' and the OS reporting that it can't read off the main disk.
Also, the 6800GT is more demanding on the power supply, generates a lot more heat, and is physically longer, so it would not be an acceptable choice for this Shuttle system, unless I proceeded to invest in additional cooling solutions both for it and the internal disks, which I really would like to avoid.

Matt D.

- There is no X500XT. Maybe you're referring to the X600 or X700? Also, the X850XT is not specifically listed in the approved by Shuttle list for use in the SB95Pv2 systems, but it is offered as one of the graphic card options on their complete systems that they sell to the public, namely the P9500G. You can see this here.
The P9500G is nothing more than the SB95Pv2 pre-built for you, which is the same system as mine.

As far as Shuttles not being for gamers, I can say that I'm getting scores over 12900 in 3DMark03 and almost 8K in 3Dmark05. I'd say that's very respectable, and I didn't overclock any of the parts in the system, nor had to install neon or see-through windows.
I do have both Intel Inside and a Fueled by Sapphire stickers in the case, does that make a difference?

So much for it not being for gamers.

[Stephen B]

glad to hear you got it sorted, you sure the 850 fan cover didn't wreck your sata cable tho ?

I'm sure Matt will enlighten on the difference between a G and P chassis, they are technically quite different

Those stickers are awesome btw, must be why you get 8k when mine only gets 6k with a 3.6 p4

[codice]

glad to hear you got it sorted, you sure the 850 fan cover didn't wreck your sata cable tho ?

I'm sure Matt will enlighten on the difference between a G and P chassis, they are technically quite different

Those stickers are awesome btw, must be why you get 8k when mine only gets 6k with a 3.6 p4

Hey Stephen.

Yep, I'm 100% sure it wasn't the X850XT fan, as it doesn't come in contact with the SATA cable, and the kinks and scratches on it were located near the are where it was zip-tied to the chassis. I'm very happy with the current results after the cable replacement.
Also, I'd like to make a correction. The ~8k mark in 3Dmark05 is not accurate. I was mistaken and was looking at my 3Dmark03 results, where 7899 was the score with the old SATA cable and 12396 is the score after I replaced the faulty cable. My 3Dmark05 score is actually 5726, which is still very close to scores achieved by people with the same CPU but slightly overclocked graphics card (which I'm not doing).
Let me know if you have an account on the Futuremark ORB site and I'll give you my info so you can check the scores.
My apologies for the mistake.

[Stephen B]

no worries, I certainly was hitting the cables that run down the side of the power supply on my case with the fan cover, it was also very close to the Sata cables too with my X850XTPE, I had to squish em flat just to get the card fitted in PCI-E slot.

here's a link to my 3dm2k5 with my stock X850XTPE and Stock 3.6, just to prove how little there is between these cards in outright performance, my X800XTPE got 6020 in same rig btw

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=753704

[codice]

no worries, I certainly was hitting the cables that run down the side of the power supply on my case with the fan cover, it was also very close to the Sata cables too with my X850XTPE, I had to squish em flat just to get the card fitted in PCI-E slot.

here's a link to my 3dm2k5 with my stock X850XTPE and Stock 3.6, just to prove how little there is between these cards in outright performance, my X800XTPE got 6020 in same rig btw

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=753704

Nice scores. Here are my links to 3Dmark03 and 3Dmark05 scores:

03 - http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3899331

05 - http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=773777

[MD]

So much for it not being for gamers.

Sorry, but after the conversation I had with Shuttle PR i got the distinct impression that there are not many Shuttles out there that cater for gamers to the extent of the kit you have in your system, don't get me wrong, I have highend kit in my box here, but only last week i was told I shouldn't.

The Shuttle thermal tests are done without any highend graphics card in place, hence they score well, I have seen a number of kitted up Shuttle's of late and they are all held back by the heat, you maybe getting good scores, but I guarantee the same components in a properly ventilated environment would work visibly better.


On the otherhand, if you are going to use any shuttle for gaming, make sure its the P series....

"The P design integrates several internal innovations including stealthed drive and front panel doors, three 3.5" drive bays and a 5.25" bay. New to the P chassis is the screwless drive installation, which makes installing drives a breeze. In addition, this design has a well-engineered airflow design with 3 airflow zones and a total of 5 linear-controlled cooling fans to keep cool all critical components."

Its the airflow in the design that makes it critical.

m@

[codice]

Sorry, but after the conversation I had with Shuttle PR i got the distinct impression that there are not many Shuttles out there that cater for gamers to the extent of the kit you have in your system, don't get me wrong, I have highend kit in my box here, but only last week i was told I shouldn't.

Interesting, because Shuttle sells complete systems geared specifically for gaming, including top-of-the-line video cards, disks, etc, with the same, if not better specs than the one i assembled. I wonder if PR is aware of their promotions in their website, or if it's just a US thing.

The Shuttle thermal tests are done without any highend graphics card in place, hence they score well, I have seen a number of kitted up Shuttle's of late and they are all held back by the heat, you maybe getting good scores, but I guarantee the same components in a properly ventilated environment would work visibly better.

Of course. If I had picked a bigger case, and used liquid-cooling, I'd be able to overclock the system and do a number of other things... which I am not looking to do.

On the otherhand, if you are going to use any shuttle for gaming, make sure its the P series....

"The P design integrates several internal innovations including stealthed drive and front panel doors, three 3.5" drive bays and a 5.25" bay. New to the P chassis is the screwless drive installation, which makes installing drives a breeze. In addition, this design has a well-engineered airflow design with 3 airflow zones and a total of 5 linear-controlled cooling fans to keep cool all critical components."

Its the airflow in the design that makes it critical.

m@

Which it is. I have the SB95Pv2, which according to Shuttle's marketing diatribe is perfectly suited for the "gamers and enthusiats". Check it out here and compare it with the specs for the P9500G here. You will notice that they're the same system (Intel 925XE chipset, ICE technology, room for 3 SATA drives, supports power-hungry cards, etc).

[Stephen B]

Well having seen 1st hand the heat issues in my unit with an 850XTPE, it surprises me that Shuttle do indeed seem to be offering such high spec pre built systems, they do seem to stop at x850xt tho, so maybe they are hedging their bets ever so slightly.

I would bet my house tho, that the fans would be running full tilt to cope with the thermal output of those combined components, so it strikes me that more than a few buyers of such systems would be returning them immediately

ATM mine is sitting purring away quietly and only fires up when doing benchies or high quality 3d gaming, but it is not overbearing to the extent it spoils my enjoyment.

I tend to agree with Matt, if you intend to put the best available components into it, the Shuttle is not the ideal choice.

[Dipro]

I have the exact same faults with my system ! Identical ! I used to have a RAID setup, however after the freeze-ups it's destroyed the RAID config, so I am now using a standard config !

I have ordered replacement memory, sata cables, and even a replacement g/card (lower voltage comsumption)for testing ! I have heard of many reasons for these problems through online forums - memory to blame, power consumption, cables, etc, etc....., and yet this originally listed fault thread, was identical to my own problems.

My config is currently:

P4 3.4ghz (650)
2GB RAM
160GB HDD - Primiary
400GB HDD - Secondary
X850XT G/Card
Sony DVD burner

I will test and change everything over the w/end and inform the thread of my results ! It's amazing that this problem can completely bugger up a system ! I have even had "No OS" errors found after the initial seize up. I am currently temp-solving the problem by cutting power completely from the XPC. Leaving it for an hour, then it seems ok'ish.

I will be back with an update after testing...............

[Dipro]

Well....... I have mixed results, but I also noticed something which might be important to one and all !

I basically replaced only the SATA cables and the G/Card. I put in new Belkin SATA cables and an ATI 1300 G/Card.

***Important Fact***

I had an ATI X850XT card in my system before I changed cards. When I took it apart, and went to replace the SATA cable, I noticed that the side of the X850XT was just touching the SATA cable for my Primary drive. Ofcourse this would vibrate against the cable when the g/card fan was spinning away, and could well explain the problems I was having.

Now ofcourse, I could also assume that the replacement of the SATA cables solved the problem too, or taking away the power hungry X850XT from the pathetic 350 Watt XPC power supply solved the problem too, but either way, I am not sure.

My system is now 100% stable and fully tested.

I hope that my input helps.

[Azzlegog]

I am someone who has bought one of these P series Shuttles direct form Shuttle themselves. The P9500g to be exact. Through their "Gamming" tab on their site last Oct.

I left everything at the Default settings upgrading Nothing EXCEPT the video card (to a G-Force 7800GT).

To be fair... this system is a dog. it has returned to Shuttle for repairs 3 times each time they have replaced 1-2 major componants.

So far Shuttle has replaced (in order)
1 G-Force 7800 GT Card (PNY. Burned out)

1 Mother Board, 1 Dammaged hard Drive.

1 G-Force 7800 GT Card (replaced with one from ATI)

and now the second Hard drive is dammaged again and will not reboot.

Shuttle has blamed me, UPS, PNY, the SATA cables, Firmware for the Card, the games I am playing... you name it.

I started out with the Symptoms above. I also was having troubble with Bad Sound, Video Freezes up to 15-45 Seconds, and of course the Blue Screen "Physical Memory Dump"s.

As far as this system not being for gammers. I have to say I would agree with that statement 100%.

This computer has been a nighmare for going on 4 months now. Just because Shuttle insists this system is good for games, does not make it so.

[Azzlegog]

I just got back from the local PC repair shop.

I had them test this machine for any clues as to where the problem really is.

The results...
Dammaged HD (Again). POSSIABLY resulting form a bad power supply. This is not 100%, only what they suspect.

They also noticed my fans were nor running at 100%, causing for a slight temp increase, from optimal. They say 60 degrees is a good temp to run a computer at, and that my computer was running around 65ish. They said it shouldn't cause too many problems, but it would be better to run the machine a little cooler, and maybe replace the fans.

I asked them about the SATA cables, and they said they rarely see thoes fail, however I heard diffrent.

From all the problems Ive had with my machine, I'd sugest only running a G-Force 6800 TOPS!!! I just dont think these systems are good at handling the newer high end cards. They either suck too much power, or create too much heat is my thinking.

By the way:
I DO hear good things about the P Series and the 6800 cards.
If I am forced to keep this machine I am personally replacing the SATA Cables, and downgrade the video card after Shuttle replaces my dammaged parts.