Who's still playing WoW then?

[Butcher]

Problem with mana tide is, you have to spec to get it, and it's still less mana by far then BoW which palas get for free. Besides, no JoW would really suck for casters (with a fast wand JoW is worth about 115 mana every 5 seconds).

For comparison, a mage nuking a boss:
On horde gets 240*4 = 960 mana back every 5 mins.
On alliance gets 33*60 + 59*60 = 1980 + 3540 = 5520 mana every 5 mins.

(NB: I assumed a 2.5s nuke speed and 50% proc rate for JoW giving one proc every 5 seconds average).

The main bonus of BoS is not that it makes people noobs (aggro is sensitive enough on many BWL/AQ fights that even with BoS you have to be careful). The bonus is that you can apply 43% more dps without getting aggro. This makes fights shorter which in turn makes them easier on healer mana and makes aggro reducing knockbacks easier to deal with for the tanks.

[dkmech]

The main bonus of BoS is not that it makes people noobs (aggro is sensitive enough on many BWL/AQ fights that even with BoS you have to be careful). The bonus is that you can apply 43% more dps without getting aggro. This makes fights shorter which in turn makes them easier on healer mana and makes aggro reducing knockbacks easier to deal with for the tanks.

I know this, what I mean was that you get a huge load of people who at lvl 60 still haven't got a clue about aggro because they were fortunate enough to have a paladin in a lot of the groups. Being a paladin I do at least know what my abilities do Although i have met a few palas who didn't have a clue about some pretty common and very useful stuff.

[Mblaster]

just a few things FR totem is 20yrds. (not 10)

Mana Stream totem is not caster based?. 140 mana every 3 secs for 12 seconds (more with talents)

whoever the shaman was is a numpty, just recast the totem that was teleported. It will despawn the one up on the top and keep it back down next to shaman to stop spawing the elite.

the 15mins thing vs 90 seconds is irrelevant only mana stream totem has a 5minute cool down.

TiG

Pretty sure Mana Stream is still not more mana than BoW unless you rotate the shamans between groups mid fight, and it only hits the 4 other people in the group, so definatly not more Raid wide (e.g. Mages will never get a mana tide but they will always have BoW).

I thought the totems were 10 yard range and an extra + 10 yard from the EF (3/5 peice?) set bonus if you happen to have it? Haven't played a shaman since the beta so can't remember.

When the totems get 'teleported' (the totem does NOT get teleported it stays at the fight spot, if it got teleported there wouldn't be a problem because there would be the correct distance between the spawn point of the maggot and the totem) there is no emote, or yell, and the time for the maggot thing to move from it's spawn point to the totem is around 2 seconds.

Having to re-cast your 4 totems every 90 seconds during an average 10 min fight is using a lot of extra mana, and it counts as casting, stopping the regen for anohter 6 seconds.

[Allen]

and there's no need for frost resist (yet )

As I'm now in an Alliance guild on a new server (3 months old), we have a use for the Paladin Frost Resistance Aura, and that's when fighting Azuregos. Instance wise there's no need for it yes, but every little helps fighting against bosses.

On the conversation about Paladins, I can't believe the difference they make in PvE compared to Shamans for Horde. As a new guild on a new server we're taking down most pre-BWL bosses with ease (except green dragons, we've taken down Ysondra, but are struggling with others). Ony, Kazzak, Azuregos and MC bosses upto Golemagg (as we haven't got enough water yet to summon Domo) have all gone down on our first attempts. Ofc AQ isn't open yet, we're less thatn 20% through the collection of items!

I'm sure that tactics and leadership has helped a lot, but I know how hard it was doing MC as Horde. It just seems to be a hell of a lot easier as Alliance and I can only put the faction differences down to the fact that in raids everyone has about 4-5 very helpful buffs up constantly, yet as Horde we were lucky to get any benefits from Shamans due to the restriction of totems.

One downer is though, we generally suck at group PvP, but hopefully that will change when more people ding 60 and we get some good regular teams going!

[Mblaster]

As I'm now in an Alliance guild on a new server (3 months old), we have a use for the Paladin Frost Resistance Aura, and that's when fighting Azuregos. Instance wise there's no need for it yes, but every little helps fighting against bosses.

I guess it would help, but his damage is really poor anyway. It was my guilds (before I was in it) first ever raid boss kill, only wearing blue loot and the odd BoE epic.

On the conversation about Paladins, I can't believe the difference they make in PvE compared to Shamans for Horde. As a new guild on a new server we're taking down most pre-BWL bosses with ease (except green dragons, we've taken down Ysondra, but are struggling with others). Ony, Kazzak, Azuregos and MC bosses upto Golemagg (as we haven't got enough water yet to summon Domo) have all gone down on our first attempts. Ofc AQ isn't open yet, we're less thatn 20% through the collection of items!

I'm sure that tactics and leadership has helped a lot, but I know how hard it was doing MC as Horde. It just seems to be a hell of a lot easier as Alliance and I can only put the faction differences down to the fact that in raids everyone has about 4-5 very helpful buffs up constantly, yet as Horde we were lucky to get any benefits from Shamans due to the restriction of totems.

Don't forget that now there are very detailed tactic guides for every boss, and mods to give warnings on all the bosses, and it's easier now that it was. Now there are 16 de-buff slots, hunters deal more damage, better loot can be gained from ZG before you start MC, and other minior things.

[Allen]

I guess it would help, but his damage is really poor anyway. It was my guilds (before I was in it) first ever raid boss kill, only wearing blue loot and the odd BoE epic.

Don't forget that now there are very detailed tactic guides for every boss, and mods to give warnings on all the bosses, and it's easier now that it was. Now there are 16 de-buff slots, hunters deal more damage, better loot can be gained from ZG before you start MC, and other minior things.

Yeah, that's true about the tactics, but we did have pretty standard gear on the first run (I think only 2 ZG runs were done before MC). The GL and Officers do know the tactics very well, but most of the guild members either haven't been to MC before or haven't been that far in MC. I can't believe that the only reason why we did so well is because of the leadership, so therefore I'm thinking that Pallies must make a bit of a difference too. I always have buffs on me like extra stats, more dmg, less agro and more healing etc, as Horde I only ever remember getting a little hp or mana from totems....

[Stylez]

60 NE Hunter and Rogue on Neptulon .

[dkmech]

Last night we had another go at Ragnaros. Another 1% wipe too! Doh. Got hin the second time with 30 still standing. Spinal reaper dropped among other stuff.

[Stylez]

We have currently completed all MC, BWL, 20 Man AQ and are now on the 6th boss of 40 man AQ. Going pretty well atm .

[Butcher]

Which is the 6th boss, Emperors?

[Stylez]

Yup i think that is it, finding him quite hard at the moment though.

[Butcher]

Should be two of them - Vek'lor and Vek'nilash. They're pretty evil.

[Kaine (AoD)]

has the patch been released today?I heard it was out in U.S yesterday so id assume it would be patch day today?

[Butcher]

has the patch been released today?I heard it was out in U.S yesterday so id assume it would be patch day today?

Where'd you hear that?

The patch was not released in the US yesterday, it's not patch day today.

[Kaine (AoD)]

okies ta someone on our servers IRC chat said it, at least i dont have to go home to blizzards annoyin patch downloader

[Stylez]

Should be two of them - Vek'lor and Vek'nilash. They're pretty evil.

Yeah i haven't taken part in those raids yet though, they've done it while ive been at work. So don't actually know that boss, but they are struggling quite a bit with him. We've only just got Princess Huhuran(sp?) on farming status. Done all up until the new one, which im yet to try, oh well less wipe costs for me .