Coppers with guns

[oralpain]

Killing a cop should be a life sentance in most cases, if not the death sentance.

What makes a cops life worth more than anyone elses?

If the idea is to be a detterent, this won't work either. Cops shoot to kill, anyone trying to defend themselves or fight against potentially leathal force is going to thing about the here and now first and the concequences later.

No one, besides a moron, will ever intentionally take a non leathal shot if their life could potentialy be in danger, unless the circumstances are truely extrordinary.

Just down the road from me, two days ago, some guy desided to steal a 10 ton earth mover and go for a joy ride. The was a police chase and when this guy turned and apparently tried to plow through the police, 19 of them opened fire. I gaurantee you that they didn't give a damn about aiming away from vitals. When you could be a fraction of a second away from death, you don't worry about what happens to the threat, as long as it ceases to be a threat. It's going to be the same any where in the world.

Tasers have ther uses against unarmed people, but there is no way that can replace a real firearm in potentially serious situations.

I do have to agree with 1000cc's statement that the public should be armed. If everyone was trained in the proper use of firearms from an early age, and the majority of people were armed, violent crime would be much more rare.

If you are going to rob or murder someone, the LAST thing you are going to care about is that your gun is illegal.

[BEANFro Elite]

Eerm...because they're putting their lives on the line to protect us and to help uphold the visibly laughable law (The British law that is)...

Would you join the Police and potentially be putting your life at risk.

But seeing as in America, now correct me if I'm wrong but the constitution pretty much urges its civilians to acquire a firearm, this is really silly and hugely backward, the justice system in America, although clearly more effective than the British justice system, its rendered almost useless in a country that feels all the people must have at least one gun in the home.

Thats to say that the average American who has a firearm is a potential gunman criminal, this being a country where a household dispute is only a single thought away from being fatally ended.

I'm trying to say, is make it a crime to possess a firearm, like in Britain, that said, gun crime is on the increase in Britain right now but its still a lot lower than in the US...

[Dooms]

I dont think they should all have guns! I mean with police that are irasponable enough to do 159mph on the motorway becuase 'ive got a new car and wanted to test it' shouldnt be given a gun which couldnt easily be used someone that could of been easy to take a non dmg'ing way since 'it was easier and safer to do'

Only shooting things i can agree on them having is Tasers and BeanBag Shotties.

edit: as suggested above, why not just some more mobile armed 'squads'?

[oralpain]

Eerm...because they're putting their lives on the line to protect us and to help uphold the visibly laughable law (The British law that is)...

So, that means that they are better than everyone else and anyone who dares to harm them (as opposed to an innocent person) should be subject to a greater form of revenge?

Would you join the Police and potentially be putting your life at risk.

I have and will put my life on the line for things I believe in. However, I will not risk my life to enforce laws I mostly do not agree with.

But seeing as in America, now correct me if I'm wrong but the constitution pretty much urges its civilians to acquire a firearm, this is really silly and hugely backward, the justice system in America, although clearly more effective than the British justice system, its rendered almost useless in a country that feels all the people must have at least one gun in the home.

Thats to say that the average American who has a firearm is a potential gunman criminal, this being a country where a household dispute is only a single thought away from being fatally ended.

I'm trying to say, is make it a crime to possess a firearm, like in Britain, that said, gun crime is on the increase in Britain right now but its still a lot lower than in the US...

To me, the constitution of the United States of America clearly says that the people have the innate right to defend themselves from our own government (in addition to any external power), if necissary. This would be nigh impossible without firearms, as the goverment controls the military and the military has some very nice firearms. However, everyone interprets things differently. My view is certainly not the most popular one.

Most of this country does not feel that having a gun at home is desireable. I and a significant minority do, but the majority does not. 39% of American households have at leat one firearm of some sort, some other countries have more.

The vast majority of firearms (pistols) used in crimes in my state
are very illegal, unless you have a permit (and the vast majority of violent criminals have no ability, or desire, to get one). This has not reduced violent crime.

Firearm laws do very little to change gun availability. If the weapons exist, people can get them.

Most "house hold disputes" that end in homicide are not even commited with firearms. Knives, random bludgeons, or bare hands work plenty well enough. The USA has a higher NON-firearm homicide rate than England's (not sure about the UK as a whole) TOTAL homicide rate. Banning ALL firearms (besides those in the hands of certan law enforcement groups) and removing them from circulation might indeed lower the murder rate, but it would not be a big change, other methods would fill the gap.

Also, a singificant number (as in several thousand per year) of serious crimes, or potential crimes, in the US are stopped or prevented by private citizens using firearms.

[nvening]

Loads of people i know have sport shotguns at thier house, and i dont even live in the country! Definately not all police should be armed, most of them would be able to use them properly or be in fit metal health. I do think though that all areads of the country should have armed officers on standby. Also, TeePee, what the hell do you work as?

[BEANFro Elite]

Well my facts are obviously a lil' patchy as this is America we're and I live in England and the way things are reported over here make Americans seem like gun toting maniacs, but thats besides the point...

Yes, whether you choose to accept it or not, the men and women who join the Police as they are putting they put us civvy's safety before theirs, this is just like the army, a Policeman and a Soldier could both wake up one and be killed in the line of duty.

For this I respect the people in the Police and all the other Public services and see them as better than the average person.

[oralpain]

That attiduted is quite common in the US as well, though I feel it is highly unwarranted, in many cases. Maybe it's more justifiable in your area.

Most of the cops I know regard thier duty to "protect and serve" as being a distant second to the perks of the job, ie increased credibility, being above the law to a small extent, being able to harass people they personally have a problem with, being able to carry a concealed firearm off-duty, a good pension plan, good medical insurance, decent pay, ect.

Some of the newer cops in my area are people I was friends with in school, I know them and most of them are very nearly the last people I want to see with a badge (even if they will let an occasional speeding violation slide for me).

Maybe I'm just overly cynical, or expect too much. Most of the time they are still doing their jobs, and they do need guns to be effective.

[nvening]

so what is the best overall rifle gun type thing?

[oralpain]

Depends on what you want to do with it, as always.

[Galant]

Understanding the US gun culture has been a process, but perhaps the simplest understanding is that the USA is a country forged out of persecution - people seeking a better life away from authorities - often autocratic - dictating things to them. They instead sought to create a nation of the people, with a government not of nobles or better people, but of the people. As such, the idea is that the people are the government. To suggest that there are some, especially the government, who are better than others and should hold all the cards goes against the history and idea of the nation.

Therefore, there's no reason why citizens can't own guns. The government are only elected citizens, chosen to do specific tasks, not take over life. Those who support gunownership believe they have a right to protect themselves - not rely on the government to do it, and also protect themselves from the government if it turns on the people, as has happened in the past.

As for crimes - choose your weapon! Knife, home made bomb, car...where there's a will there's a way. The point is that most people are responsible and aren't about to kill anyone - gun or not - guns don't make people want to kill people. Adding a decent licensing process reduces the chance of criminal action.

Finally, as for shooting people in the leg, forget about it. If the police are armed and they have to shoot it's shoot to kill every time. Only in Hollywood do you have quick moving marksman with dead-eye accuracy. Pistol marksmanship is difficult, even under calm circumstances. Having fired a few pistols I know. All this running jumping, spin and shoot them in the leg nonsense doesn't work. When in circumstances where you have to react and shoot, or with a tricky target, you just shoot to kill, ff they survive then good, but you shoot to kill.

[oralpain]

Understanding the US gun culture has been a process, but perhaps the simplest understanding is that the USA is a country forged out of persecution - people seeking a better life away from authorities - often autocratic - dictating things to them. They instead sought to create a nation of the people, with a government not of nobles or better people, but of the people. As such, the idea is that the people are the government. To suggest that there are some, especially the government, who are better than others and should hold all the cards goes against the history and idea of the nation.

Therefore, there's no reason why citizens can't own guns. The government are only elected citizens, chosen to do specific tasks, not take over life. Those who support gunownership believe they have a right to protect themselves - not rely on the government to do it, and also protect themselves from the government if it turns on the people, as has happened in the past.

As for crimes - choose your weapon! Knife, home made bomb, car...where there's a will there's a way. The point is that most people are responsible and aren't about to kill anyone - gun or not - guns don't make people want to kill people. Adding a decent licensing process reduces the chance of criminal action.

Finally, as for shooting people in the leg, forget about it. If the police are armed and they have to shoot it's shoot to kill every time. Only in Hollywood do you have quick moving marksman with dead-eye accuracy. Pistol marksmanship is difficult, even under calm circumstances. Having fired a few pistols I know. All this running jumping, spin and shoot them in the leg nonsense doesn't work. When in circumstances where you have to react and shoot, or with a tricky target, you just shoot to kill, ff they survive then good, but you shoot to kill.

That's actually a pritty good analysis. Too bad most americans are ignorant of these points. Too bad most americans seem incapable of applying a logical thought process to innumnerable other issues. They are all out to take something from eachother, under the most absurd pretenses.

[oclocker]

"I do have to agree with 1000cc's statement that the public should be armed. If everyone was trained in the proper use of firearms from an early age, and the majority of people were armed, violent crime would be much more rare."

Maybe but deaths from arguments - family/neighbours etc in heat of the moment exchanges would soar. Marvin Gaye knows that well..

[RedPutty]

I remember in October last year, my friend's mum was robbed on the street and we had to go to Police station and the some of the Policemen were telling us how much they wish they had guns

Shouldnt you be in favour of more police patrols then, having guns would have zero affect on the crime you mention.

[Galant]

Don't give cops guns and the criminals will still get guns because they're more efficient than other weapons and will widen their advantage.

[RedPutty]

most criminals dont have guns, if the cops had guns then the criminals would be more likely to get them, see the USA.

[Flibb]

Why look at USA, most of Europe has armed Police, along with Canada, Australia etc.