Peak Oil

[Overlag]

im getting bored of reading all the trash in the articial....but at the same time it all makes sence too!

[spazman]

Its not the lack of energy im worried about, loads of other sources of that, its what the hell are we going to make stuff from. All plastic is made from oil. No oil = No plastic = No anything.

[LayZeh]

Far worse has happened and the human race prevailed.

[PMM]

All plastic is made from oil. No oil = No plastic = No anything.

You might find that's sort of incorrect, again there's alternatives

Thermoplastic Starch to name one.

[DaBeeeenster]

Far worse has happened and the human race prevailed.

I cant think of anything in history that approaches the severity and impact of oil running out.

Just imagine, if oil ceased to exist, what would happen to:

- Food production and delivery
- Water purification
- Electricity production

They would all stop! What could be worse than living without food, water or electricity?

The only area I can think of that in any way approaches the potential for disaster is the dawn of the nuclear age. This is still a long way from the impact that no food, water or energy would have on the human race...

[PablumPicasso]

You're right DaBeeeeenster, of course, it's not an if, it's a when. We've been given a huge housewarming present in the form of fossil fuels, and some of us are running around acting like we'll be able to use them forever, when we've only been using them for a little over a hundred years. That's 1/20th the time since Jesus lived, and 1/1200th the time Homo sapiens have inhabited the planet and they're almost gone already. Fossil fuels are the reason we have been so prosperous for the last 100 years. I think it's a duty to develop alternatives while we still have the resources to do so.
Of course, some researchers are developing worthwhile technologies to help deal with the changeover. Fuel cells are wonderful because they are essentially extremely efficient batteries. We could tie these to solar panels to generate and store electricity for rainy days, or to share with our neighbors through a grid, connected to a main electricity generation plant. In addition, we'd have energy to run our car from the same source. Flexible solar panels are being developed.
Another potential source comes from biotech. Recently (in the last year) researchers discovered a bacteria that can transfer electrons directly from sugar to an electrode. Potentially, somewhere down the line, we could generate electricity directly from plant matter, without the energy loss accompanying combustion and conversion into electricity using the steam generation process we use now. It's an exciting potential.

Anyway, we're not screwed unless we elect leaders who are blind to the whole of history, and blind to the truths science reveals to us.
Pablum

[TeePee]

DaBeeeeenster, did you actually read any of this thread?

Like the part where I explained how less than 6% of our electricity generation actually comes from oil and gas combined?

[pedigree]

Simple, with America using over half of the worlds oil, we have to triple the price in the US to stop everyone getting in their 3mpg poluter just to get down to McDonalds for breakfast

[DaBeeeenster]

DaBeeeeenster, did you actually read any of this thread?

Like the part where I explained how less than 6% of our electricity generation actually comes from oil and gas combined?

Britain has large coal deposits. Other countries do not. And this is just for electricity. How are you going to power vehicles when the oil starts increasing in price?
The fact that we will be placing even further dependence on electricity production, which in term generates even larger amounts of greenhouse gases, is that somehow meant to be a good thing?

[TeePee]

As I also explained, electrical vehicles can replace petrol vehicles. ATM there is no market for them, becuase there is no oil shortage, but the technology exists. Other countries can buy coal from those countries with large deposits, which are mainly developing countries who would otherwise not be able to afford electric vehicles. It actually works out quite nicely.

Electricity generation produces a fraction of the greenhouse gasses produced by oil based vehicles. If all vehicles used electricity (and electricity generation increased)gasses would be reduced to 10% of current levels. These gasses would also be concentrated away from city centres, improving the environment.

[DaBeeeenster]

As I also explained, electrical vehicles can replace petrol vehicles. ATM there is no market for them, becuase there is no oil shortage, but the technology exists. Other countries can buy coal from those countries with large deposits, which are mainly developing countries who would otherwise not be able to afford electric vehicles. It actually works out quite nicely.

Electricity generation produces a fraction of the greenhouse gasses produced by oil based vehicles. If all vehicles used electricity (and electricity generation increased)gasses would be reduced to 10% of current levels. These gasses would also be concentrated away from city centres, improving the environment.

Can you give some links to those facts?

I was under the impression that burning something and converting it to electricity, then transporting the electricity, then converting it into a battery and then getting that battery to drive an electric motor that pushes pistons is less efficient than burning something that pushes pistons?

[PMM]

efficiency was not mentioned ? the quote of reduction in Green house gasses was and very true, modern day power stations are far more enviromently freindly than running your car.

but...

Technology Management Services of Washington, D.C. has worked the numbers. A good electric power plant converts about 35% of its thermal energy into electricity. The best car engine can convert barely 20% of its heat to mechanical energy at the wheel. Transmitting electricity, charging a battery and running an electric motor entail some energy loss, but refining oil for cars entails even more.

[TeePee]

It's njot just converion of thermal energy into mechanical energy, there is also the conversion of chemical energy into thermal energy, and this is where a powerplant makes real ggains against a car engine. If you look at the emmisions of a car engine, it contains large quantities of carbon monoxide, along with CO2 and water. A power station is able to control the combustion more carefully, and the result is a more complete burn and less CO.

Electric motors dont have pistons.

[DaBeeeenster]

Do you have any links TeePee?

[TeePee]

To websites? I'm sure I can find some, but if you remember I can be quoted as saying the web is half lies and half pornography.

I will happily quote my source as 'Fundamentals of Physics Extended' Fifth Edition, By David Halliday, Robert Resnick and Jearl Walker. Chapters 7, 8 and 19 are all relevent.

[artaxerxes]

Sod oil there is always

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/20...tes/print.html

While scientists quibble over the exact size of the world's methane hydrate deposits, few question that the overall endowment is, as the Department of Energy puts it, "truly staggering." Methane hydrates may hold 100 times more gas than all of the world's conventional natural gas reserves: perhaps even more energy than all of the coal, oil and natural gas found the world over, geologists say.