LinkBack URL
About LinkBacksI think if anyone wanted to donate any money by now, they would have heard enough of it from just the news.
There really is little point to an advert for aid...
Yes
No
I think if anyone wanted to donate any money by now, they would have heard enough of it from just the news.
There really is little point to an advert for aid...
Agree, this is great publicity and I imagine the donations will probably increase substantially.Originally Posted by Funkstar
This:
"If it's going to be on ALL the other channels, whats the fuss if the BBC don't broadcast it?",
This:
"Fact is, the problems in Gaza are self inflicted by the two factions. Let them pay for it as i see things like supporting our NSPCC as far more important."
and
This:
"I think if anyone wanted to donate any money by now, they would have heard enough of it from just the news."
I all agree with those quotes. Especially the second sentence of the second quote - it annoys me when people give money to the most random overseas charities (i.e. my shool is raising a lot of money for an orphanage in Bulgaria) as I'd rather see it go towards our own charities to help our own people in our own country.
The trouble is, the two factions, Israel and Hamas, aren't by and large the ones doing the suffering, and those doing the suffering have little influence or control of Hamas let alone Israel.
They're sealed inside a conflict zone, and it seems, couldn't hide (even in UN schools) and couldn't flee either.
Personally, I fully accept the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and anyone that wants to give aid should feel entirely free to do so. It's then down to the individual as to whether they do that instead of to domestic charities or as well as, though I suspect that for many it will be as well as. The issue of whether to broadcast the appeal is a rather different issue to whether the victims get aid or not.
i partially agree with this, if gaza hadnt voted hamas in hten nothing like this would have heppened in the first place.
"I'm doing it naked guys to reduce the static"
"Sell your dog, it will only reduce airflow in the long run"
You are aware that Israel broke the ceasefire first?
I don't care about Hamas, but I do care about those innocent Palestinians who were massacred in this conflict. Israel pretty much obliterated Gaza, killed 1200+ innocent civilians of which 400 were children, some even incinerated by white phosphorus shells (which is not allowed to be used in civilian areas under the Geneva convention). They bombed hospitals, schools and even destroyed a UN building which is strictly prohibited under international law. For comparison only 4 Israeli civilians died. This wasn't war, it was a one sided massacre. Israel claim to have achieved their 'objectives' but in fact they have just created more hatred against them. For every one civilian they have killed, one more will join Hamas.
As stated before whether you think Isreal or Hamas are at fault, they are not the ones who are suffering. Innocent people are and because of that reason I believe that the BBC should have shown the appeal. However its quite possible that if BBC had aired, there would have less donations due to the media hype this has received so maybe this was a good thing
Israel broke the ceasefire first? iw as not aware of that. I thought Hamas were firing rockets into israel for more than 8 years. Would that not be breaking a ceasefire?
"I'm doing it naked guys to reduce the static"
"Sell your dog, it will only reduce airflow in the long run"
No, we are talking about the ceasefire that was put in place I think in June 2008. Isreal broke it by killing 6 Gazans on the 4th of November. Adding to that, under the terms of the ceasefire Israel were supposed to lift the embargo they had on Gaza but they didn't. Instead Gaza remained without fuel, electricity, medical supplies, and food for months.
I totally disagree with the above comment. Nobody can ever possibly know who broke the ceasefire first and to be honest if one side hadnt broken it first then the other would have done. This wwar, and whatever you say it is a war not a massacre, is one which will continue till one side obliterates the other. This is what happens when you decide to take land from one person and give it to another.
I personally feel that no aid should be given to anybody not part of the British empire (however small it now is). We come first, we have people living on the streets and have suicides in teenagers on the increase, WE COME FIRST. Gordon Brown needs 2 stop trying to save the planet and start by saving us first.
But back to point, i totally back Israel, while they may do things against the Geneva convention just because we may follow the rules why would the enemy? The know the risks of shooting rockets as Israel, they know they are likely to be killed themselves, they take the risk, so Israel has every right, yes the right, to kick arse to defend its people.
Fortunately we do know who broke this ceasefire and its hypothetical to say that the other side might have broken the ceasefire first, we don’t know so lets stick to facts
So by your logic, if our enemy killed innocent children so we should kill theirs? I mean thats what you are basically implying.
Wow! So hamas fires a handful of rockets, and Israel replies back by obliterating a strip of land that is roughly the size of Isle of White, knowing full well that 90% of casualties will be innocent civilians. I wouldn’t define this as self defence, to me its cowardice. To help you put this into context, would you be able to sleep at night if in the 1970’s every time a bomb attack occurred, we rounded up all the Catholics in Northern Island into one area and the ordered the RAF to pound it, I doubt many of us would be very happy.
The problem that Israel presents is that it flaunts the Geneva convention whenever it feels like it and no-one does a damn thing about it because the US supports it and can veto any sanctions at the UN.
Hooold your horses there, boyo. I don't disagree that the BBC tends to slant its coverage (in ways that I actually largely agree with), but the idea you put forward of left wing neo-liberalism is a nonsense. The so-called left wing is about egalitarianism and social justice. Neo-liberalism is about almost extreme individual self-determination. Putting the two together is like saying you are a jewish nazi.
The bias, as far as I am concerned, would not be between Palestine and Israel. It would be promoting Palestinian suffering above that in Darfur, Zimbabwe, Sierra Leone, Haiti, Afghanistan, etc. To show an appeal for aid regarding one warzone but not all would imply the people affected by the one zone you focus on are somehow more important than the rest. That would be biased.
If people really want to donate, they should be able to find plenty of charities by themselves; I don’t need advertisements to tell me what I need to do.
How can you care about innocent Palestinians and not care about the terrorist group who were elected to run their country? You haven’t really thought about this properly have you? I think your emotions have got the best of you and made some irrational judgments.
You have to understand that if it were not for Hamas, this would never have happened the way it did. You should also be aware that the terrorist group Hamas (Yes they are recognised as a terrorist group) have repeatedly stolen aid and supplies which were suppose to be for the victims of this conflict. That means the money people have donated for the real victims has instead been given indirectly to a bunch of terrorists.
Hamas are un-organised and not fit to run Palestine, they do not care for their people, they only care for a war they have no chance of winning.
Israel is a nuclear state and no one wants to get seriously involved, I don’t agree with the way Israel handled the situation, they could have killed less innocent people, and used different weapons but it’s impossible not to kill any innocent people in a war, I don’t think its ever been done. Israel should be investigated for the alleged use of phosphorus shells and punished if found liable.
You sound very anti-Israel if I'm honest, try to view both sides of the argument before making up your mind.
It’s not easy to live next door to a terrorist who is often disturbing your everyday working life, especially if you know they are planning on launching a big attack eventually, it would make me paranoid.
I hope the people of Palestine can move on and elect a proper government; otherwise they will always be the victims.
Apologies for the late reply, had some uni tests
You have understand that when you have been put under years of oppression and suffering, its no surprise to that you can end up voting someone in like Hamas.
If you had researched the origins of this conflict you would have realised that. For decades the Palestinians have been under brutal oppression from the Israeli forces. They’ve had their land stolen, illegal settlements built, walls built around them to keep them in like rats, embargos placed upon them so they are always in poverty, bombs dropped on them. The Israeli’s have suffered nothing remotely similar. Just have a look at Israel’s human rights record and you’ll understand. You also mention that this would never have happened if it was not for Hamas. Well it was happening before Hamas came along, and as long Israel continue to act in a similar fashion it will never stop.
Israel punished? By who, the UN? Those bunch of pansies? Israel as long as it has the support of the US will do whatever it wants whenever it wants because any resolution against them will be vetoed by the US. (See picture as an example of what I mean). Besides using phosphorus shells, Israel has broken countless other international laws, e.g., illegal settlements, torturing of soldiers, building of the Gaza wall, etc. I agree in any war it’s difficult to avoid killing innocent civilians however Israel didn’t even attempt to do so.
The above the point would make much more logical sense if you were referring to the Palestinian as the ones being scared, but I'm guessing thats not the case so have you been brainwashed? Big attack from Hamas? Since Gaza is under a complete blockade from all sides and since Israel/Egypt control whatever goes in and out, the most I can imagine Hamas could sneak in under the radar, would be hand full of rockets and guns. Hardly enough to mount a ‘big attack’. Or do you believe Hamas can sneak in a hundred of cruise missiles, tanks and F16s and mount a full scale invasion?
If you have a look at the conflict from day 1 (when Israel was formed) up until now, and just look at the various actions taken on both sides you would see that while the Palestinians are not free of blame, the majority has to lay on Israel. But to be perfectly honest, your post shows utter ignorance on the topic. Instead of attempting to refute the above points I have made in this thread, all you have done is blamed my emotions. Trust me on this emotions have nothing to do with I’ve said, and even if they did my points remain valid. So do yourself a favour, stop watching fox news and read up. I recommend wiki to start off with, BBC is not bad as well
Last edited by shadowmaster; 22-02-2009 at 02:45 AM.
I'm sorry but shadowmaster you have some serious issues....
Ok where do i start? Do you live in israel or palestine? No so you have no idea whatsoever of who broke ceasefire first apart from what you have seen on the news which is totally biased, or that you have read off the internet which will again have been written by someone with a bias.Fortunately we do know who broke this ceasefire and its hypothetical to say that the other side might have broken the ceasefire first, we don’t know so lets stick to facts . And yes this was massacre. How the hell can you say that the loss of over 400 innocent children who had nothing to do with the conflict is not a massacre, then tbh I don’t know what is?
Israel will not, however deluded you may be, have intentionally launched missiles and shells at schools and hospitals to hurt innocent people. This is a war, wars have casualties that aren't always the ones fighting. And your right you don't know what a massacre is at all.
and where do you get your valuable research from? Could it be the internet? Ah, i see your telling us to check wiki.... do you have a single shread of common sense? I could go onto wiki now and put whatever i wanted on a certain date and a large majority of people would believe it as long as it made sense. It seems you are one of these people.If you had researched the origins of this conflict you would have realised that.
Again you seem to be promoting the hamas. Israel will have be given the blame because it is a more powerful country, just because someone is the majority of power doesnt mean they have the majority of blame.If you have a look at the conflict from day 1 (when Israel was formed) up until now, and just look at the various actions taken on both sides you would see that while the Palestinians are not free of blame, the majority has to lay on Israel.
And lastly
Look at our own control. We are one of the biggest powers in the world (ok not as big as we used to be), and we can't control what comes in and out of our country! Can you be so niave as to beleive if gaza wanted something smuggling in they couldn't do it? Hand full of rockets? 27 launches in a 6hour time period isn't a handful of rockets. And since when have you need a large amount of weaponry to launch a big attack? If you remember 9/11 or 7/7 hundreds of people were killed and many more injured using only 2 planes (hijacked with fake bombs) and a few backpack sized bombs in london. I remember being in college when 7/7 happened. The fear it put in us that we could be attacked by such a small force which caused so much devastation.Since Gaza is under a complete blockade from all sides and since Israel/Egypt control whatever goes in and out, the most I can imagine Hamas could sneak in under the radar, would be hand full of rockets and guns. Hardly enough to mount a ‘big attack’. Or do you believe Hamas can sneak in a hundred of cruise missiles, tanks and F16s and mount a full scale invasion?
Shadowmaster you need to do some real research before you try to become a beacon for other hamas supporters to argue against everything israel does. Lastly deluded guy is right you are letting your emotions get the better of you, and you are using things you have read of the internet which is wildly inaccurate at the best of times and putting them across as pure fact no exceptions.
Ok, where shall I start? BTW you didn't reply to my previous post (post 26).
Why would I have to live in Israel or Palestine to know who broke the ceasefire? It’s a well known fact, I would refer you to a news article from CCN, BBC or even Mark Regev (Isreal spokesmen), but according to you everything is bias on the internet and on the news.
But they knew they would inevitable killing many as soon as they decided to bomb the strip. It’s obvious if you are firing shells in to densely populated area in which majority are civilians. I'm sure civilian casualty could have been minimised, for example not using white phosphorus. And almost every human rights organisation I can think of, Amnesty, Red Cross, even the UN have said Israel were wrong in what they did. It’s a simple as that. But I’m sure they are all bias and anti Israel…
And I might add, this militant exertion by Israel has now unfortunately made Hamas stronger as for every one that has died, another will join them.
Actually it was mainly from these two books. Where did you get your knowledge from, the back of a cereal box?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Case-Israel-...5586582&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyond-Chutz...5586628&sr=1-2
Wiki is a relatively good starting place to learn some facts. And no, not anyone can add to it. A lot of the heavily viewed articles are monitored on a regular basis to make sure that only facts which can be cited are mentioned and that the article is written in a neutral viewpoint.
Me promote Hamas? I despise them as well. Israel have be given the blame because they caused this humanitarian disaster. If Hamas ever do a similar thing, I guarantee you I will be on this very same forum and I will argue against them.
But we don’t have 20 foot wall built around us, not the size of the Isle of White and have a blockade put on us. But I don't expect you to know that.
Anyhow if you had bothered to read what I was referring to, I was saying Hamas don’t have the capability to launch a full scale military invasion. There is only so much damage Hamas can do, they cannot fire anything more then rockets or carry out suicide attacks, which I admit can cause serious damage and are wrong, but in comparison to what Israel have done and can do, it is small.
Well I have not really used the internet much in any of my arguments, but I’m guessing you have not realised that. I don’t mind a bit of debating on issues like these because there are some valid points to be made on both sides. But here is the funny thing, you’ve not made one! I could argue on the behalf of Israel better then you can and I don’t even support them on this issue. If one was to analyse your argument, all you have done is criticised me personally, the internet and media because you think all three of us are bias towards Israel. So I’m just wondering, where shall I get my information from as you are really not leaving me with much choice? I could get some info from the Jerusalem Post, but even they have criticised the Israeli government before, so they must be bias as well.
And before you reply with some rubbish like I muse be anti Jewish, I'm not. I really want peace between everyone in that area, because both sides are suffering (one more then other I might add). My argument is only against the Israeli government and the IDF, not the people themselves.
One last thing, you only have three posts all of which are in this thread. There is nothing wrong with joining Hexus because of a single thread interests you but you have not made any attempt to involve yourself in any other threads or discussions, which leads me to conclude you must troll the internet, look for any pro Palestine post, and reply with the usual rubbish. If you feel so strongly about Israel I invite you to start a new thread on the overall conflict and we can gladly discuss it in a civilised manner, without the personal insults. But before you consider doing that it might be well worth the effort to read up, I recommend the library this time.
A full scale military offensive by the Israelis is not the solution.
I am not sympatheic to any party, but the the use of phosphorus bombs in civilian areas is deplorable - they have just last the arguement.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
