Companies moving call centre's overseas

[DaBeeeenster]

How ridiculous is that?

Why is it ridiculous? People from India come to Britain to work. Why not go to India?

I never said anything about third world countries not being able to get jobs! I agree, they need help, but why do so many people in Britain have to suffer job loses for that reason?

The number of people affected by this is a tiny, tiny fraction. How many people have had their jobs move overseas? 50,000? 60,000? With unemployment rates so low they will easily be able to get another job.

Well, that's nice that you were able to do that, but many people simply can't.

Why on earth not? Anyone can set up a limited company.

I never said they take our jobs and am not angry with them as I have no right to be. I am angry with the companies who do it as they are obviously only thinking of their profits in the process. And why do I have to change my job exactly?

My point is this. If you work in the private sector, you have to accept that your life is affected by the forces of the free market. Job moving to India? Tough. Company gone under? Tough. Being given a salary cut? Tough.

You make a choice when you start working whether you want to work in the private or the public sector. If you want job stability, work in the public sector. If you want more money, work in the private sector. If you lose your job for whatever reason, find another one.

When was the last time you heard of a doctor or a teacher get laid off?

It really angers me the way people are so protectionist. Why the hell should we have a monopoly on jobs? Most of the people in India are DIRT POOR. If they can do my job to the same standards and cheaper, good luck to them. They deserve it. All the posters here in the UK had the opportunity of (relatively) excellent educations. Why can move jobs relatively easily, and we have an unemployment rate as practically low as it can be. People in the developing world have none of these luxories.

[Barakka]

Don't have a problem with companies moving the call centres to elsewhere, it's their risk. What I do have a problem with is that the 60-75% savings the companies are making are not being passed on to the customers... Greed I guess.

I have had a little experience with call centres in India, the only company I use which has done it is the company I buy Water from. This is tricky one, as at the moment I can't buy water from anyone else, so in effect I can't vote with my feet. If the standard of customer service provided does not increase then I think a lot of UK customers will be doing just this.

I had a painful conversation last week trying to change a direct debit I have setup, after 15 mins of trying to get it set to £20 with no joy, I ended up settling for £30, it wasn't worth the hastle...

[TiG]

So if it costs me £10000 to build a BMW and I can sell it for £100000, i'm a bad company?.

If anything thats the ultimate situation to be in. Sorry to say but sod the customer, if i could charge charge 3 times the amount and still get the same amount of custom, i'd do it.

Companies are not there to save money for customers, THEY ARE THERE TO MAKE MONEY for themselves, thats what capatilism is about.

TiG

[DaBeeeenster]

Don't have a problem with companies moving the call centres to elsewhere, it's their risk. What I do have a problem with is that the 60-75% savings the companies are making are not being passed on to the customers... Greed I guess.

I have had a little experience with call centres in India, the only company I use which has done it is the company I buy Water from. This is tricky one, as at the moment I can't buy water from anyone else, so in effect I can't vote with my feet. If the standard of customer service provided does not increase then I think a lot of UK customers will be doing just this.

I had a painful conversation last week trying to change a direct debit I have setup, after 15 mins of trying to get it set to £20 with no joy, I ended up settling for £30, it wasn't worth the hastle...

I think you are getting "companies" and "charities" mixed up. Publicly owned companies (as are most of the ones outsourcing a small percentage of jobs out of the UK) have a legal obligation to maximise shareholder value. They are simply doing what the free market and law instructs them to do.

[Big RICHARD]

The law says that companies must make profit?

[Allen]

I think you are getting "companies" and "charities" mixed up. Publicly owned companies (as are most of the ones outsourcing a small percentage of jobs out of the UK) have a legal obligation to maximise shareholder value. They are simply doing what the free market and law instructs them to do.

I thought you were all for equality and all that, yet you seem to applaud those companies who make the rich richer and make the division between classes greater.....

In my opinion it's sickening that these companies are outsourcing to cheaper countries and exploiting the fact that they will work for less and the ONLY reason they are doing it is so the fat cats at the top get even more money for themselves.

[DaBeeeenster]

So if it costs me £10000 to build a BMW and I can sell it for £100000, i'm a bad company?.

If anything thats the ultimate situation to be in. Sorry to say but sod the customer, if i could charge charge 3 times the amount and still get the same amount of custom, i'd do it.

Companies are not there to save money for customers, THEY ARE THERE TO MAKE MONEY for themselves, thats what capatilism is about.

TiG

This is actually a concept that I strongly disagree with. That might seem curious given my current position in this thread, but I think it is important to argue the premise that this free market attitude is NOT a good thing overall, and needs seriously overhauling.

Companies should be judged (and taxed) based on social responsibility, environmental approach and sustainability as well as profits. The current system is, in my opinion, quite absurd.

[Rave]

Why on earth not? Anyone can set up a limited company.

While I generally agree with your points in this thread, that's a bit glib. You as a web designer can easily set up on your own, but I don't think it would be particularly easy to get business as a one man call centre operation.

Rich :¬)

[Proplus]

One of the main factors (which has a close link to pay) is that people over in Asia are harder workers than over here. Some of you might dismiss this as total BS, but being Hong Kong Chinese by descent, I have been able to look at both cultures with much more detail than others.

Over there, everyday lifestyle does not end when the sun goes down, but its is very much 24 hours. They are very much used to this, and for some people, leisure time wouldn't start for them until midnight. Whilst over here, 6pm comes, work finished, drop everything. One of the best examples I can give is builders. Over there, a whole complex WILL be built in a matter of weeks max, whilst over here, months and months go by with deadlines being extended time and time again. Builders over there really work their ass off, sending in teams who work in shifts around the clock non-stop until the job gets done. Over here, 6pm comes, the end....and that doesn't account for the endless tea breaks inbetween.

This is just to highlight that people over there are much hard working than those over here. With call centres having to be manned 24 hours a day, over here, those that are employed during the 'graveyard' shift have to be paid more, whilst people over in Asia might not necessarily require more pay to work these shifts, not because of lack the of jobs forcing them to take on whatever job they can get their hands on, but because of their general attitude to work.

[DeludedGuy]

I am against it.

Tiscali have a call centre some place in India, the service is unacceptable! Its by far the worst call centre I have experienced. I spend 10 minutes in a queue, to speak to some guy who I can barely understand, and has no basic knowledge about data communication.

The only thing I ever get out of those people are “Please wait a few days, if you still have problems restart your computer, or call us again”, highly unlikely that I will be calling them again at national rates.

Many hard working English people will also lose thier jobs, becuase some people in a different country, with a weaker economy can work for less money. Great for big organisations, bad for the hard working English people.

[DaBeeeenster]

I thought you were all for equality and all that, yet you seem to applaud those companies who make the rich richer and make the division between classes greater.....

In my opinion it's sickening that these companies are outsourcing to cheaper countries and exploiting the fact that they will work for less and the ONLY reason they are doing it is so the fat cats at the top get even more money for themselves.

Please note my post #23. In my opinion it is the current market framework that is unsatisfactory, not the companies themselves. The companies are merely a function of the framework. Unfortunately, I dont think this is going to change any time soon.

As for the "fat cats", CEO's and Directors are not doing this to line their pockets. They are doing it to remain competitive. If they were doing it purely to pocket the profits, they would be voted out by the shareholders before they could get to the bank! Yes, Directors get paid a lot, and yes, some get paid too much, but on the whole their salaries are in line with their abilities and positions of responsibility.

[DaBeeeenster]

I am against it.

Tiscali have a call centre some place in India, the service is unacceptable! Its by far the worst call centre I have experienced. I spend 10 minutes in a queue, to speak to some guy who I can barely understand, and has no basic knowledge about data communication.

The only thing I ever get out of those people are “Please wait a few days, if you still have problems restart your computer, or call us again”, highly unlikely that I will be calling them again at national rates.

So change company! Vote with your wallet!

Many hard working English people will also lose thier jobs, becuase some people in a different country, with a weaker economy can work for less money. Great for big organisations, bad for the hard working English people.

...and great for Indians.

Do you not think people had this attitude at the dawn of the Industrial Age in Britain? Or at the dawn of the Technology Age? And what happened to all the jobs that were "taken" by spinning looms or computers? They were simply redistributed, whilst productivity took a huge leap. This is simply happening again.

If you have lost your job over this, then I'm sorry to hear that, but I have lost TWO jobs over this and I am not complaining. It's simply the way the market works.

[DeludedGuy]

So change company! Vote with your wallet!

Leaving Tiscali has been a nightmare! I called them up and told them that my 12 month contract is over and that I wanted to close my account, the guy said I had to put it in writing and send it off. He also told me it may take 1 month to process my request.

I have heard that many people who sent off requests to close thier account, have never had any replies from Tiscali.

[DaBeeeenster]

Leaving Tiscali has been a nightmare! I called them up and told them that my 12 month contract is over and that I wanted to close my account, the guy said I had to put it in writing and send it off. He also told me it may take 1 month to process my request.

I have heard that many people who sent off requests to close thier account, have never had any replies from Tiscali.

So just write a letter and then 4 weeks later cancel your standing order or stop paying them...

[petrefax]

its a bit difficult for me to be objective about this atm since the company i work for, and more specifically the offices i work in, are being process mapped & whatever can be shipped to india is being sent there at the moment

obviously, its not a nice atmosphere to work in when you're in fear for your job, but on the flipside as a shareholder in the company its potentially benefitting me

on one hand i can agree with proplus, some UK staff take no pride in their work & expect to get paid for doing what amounts to virtually nothing in an average day. (as part of my job i do the training element of implementing system changes & some staff will go out of their way to make things fail because they like things "the old way" ...."but this is how we've always done it" etc)

on the other hand, the indian staff take a great deal of pride in their work, but have no company loyalty, so the minute a new company starts in the area, paying more than we do, all our staff will be off & we're re-training more. also from what i can gather the staff there are driven by targets & anyting thats not straightforward seems to get left since it would eat into someones performance to spend more than the average time on a particular piece of work.

in my personal experience the one thing i find frustrating with indian staff is that there's no initiative displayed, they'll follow procedures to the letter, regardless of how inappropriate they are

[5lab]

ok, so i cba reading thru all this, but i work for a department of my company which does all the stuff like move our call centres to india. the savings are stupidly big doing this, and believe it or not, agents overseas on average give BETTER service than those in this country. this is because over there working in a call center is seen as a good jobs, which graduates do as a career, where as over here it is seen as a cr*ppy job which is 2apenny, and people who cant be arsed with tesco work there. there are statistics to prove this fact, which we use to justify the expense of moving some work out there.