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About LinkBacksSorry, I can't think of anything else to say.
Sorry, I can't think of anything else to say.
We live in the kind of world where it seems to be an accepted strategy to overrun a school and plant bombs around it. Where a group of laundry workers can be murdered simply because they are bhuddist. A man defending his life and property get's more jail time than the burglars. Where it's commonplace for people to get on to crowded busses and blow themselves and the other passengers up.
And a raft of 'well intentioned' people will rush to defend the motives of the killers and thieves while condemning any moves made to try and right a situation.
"You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"
Kinda sad place isn't it?
"You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"
That just about covers it; an appalling and terrible act and one that I deplore.Originally Posted by yamangman
We also live in a world when people choose to give up chances for a large income in order to help others less fortunate than themselves. Where nations are aware of issues thousands of miles beyond their own borders, and often send out supplies, resources and part of their own income to assist.
It's like one really big RPG really.
The question is, who are you going to be?
Last edited by Galant; 03-09-2004 at 11:54 PM.
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This is also true, Galant; and a timely reminder. Can I be a half-orc chaotic good fighter, please?
I've thought about this a few times. It seems that in real life most people are content to be NPC's doing the same things over and over, living for the small things, never going beyond their boundaries, and having no real purpose.
How will we choose to live?
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And how much of that aid ends up paying for another lear jet for some despot?
Cynical? Damn right, been there and seen it with my own 2 eyes. It's not an RPG, you don't just ressurect a character or go back and play the last level because it didn't go quite right.
Money alone won't solve things and nor will a small group (and it is small) of dedicated people. People in deprived societies have to help themselves. Giving handouts just breeds people with their hands out. Education and changing attitudes is more important than throwing money at a problem. Let's not forget. It is often in the interest of the leaders of such states to keep their people in ignorance. Makes them easier to control. If you want a lesson from history then look no further than the British empire. Education was more a cause of it's demise than any other.
People need to want to change too. Can you see fundamentalist terrorists changing their views voluntarily? More likely to decapitate your aid workers on video. Do these kinds of people want an educated nation, or a nation in ignorance that they can control?
"You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"
Only if you complete the requisite quests and collect five gold rings and a random bunch of unrelated flowers. Or you can fasttrack by rounding up 3 sqigs and killing a cave troll.This is also true, Galant; and a timely reminder
"You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"
RVF my apologies, it was meant light-heartedly with aim more to highlight how individuals in western society focus their lives, or what they do with them, and how many of us spend more time and effort investing into fictional characters than we do our own real lives.
The NPC and player character distinction.
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Galant, there is absolutely no need to apologise. I was taking an opposite view missing the point you made and admit that I can be a bit forthright in my comments. Often coming accross as belligerant. Ok, that's because I am belligerant. Oh yeah, and cynical....
Oh, and can I be a mercenary in this RPG? Some kinda literary warrior sorta thing. A thinking mans thug if you like. That way I get to make an informed choice on who's cause I sign up forThen get highly paid for busting heads that I would gladly bust for free
Last edited by RVF500; 04-09-2004 at 12:31 AM.
"You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"
The world we live in looks like this:
99% of the people know whats right......only 10% of them will do something to change it, the others fail for fear for themselves/their loved ones/their property
1% of people who dont know wrong from right are supported by a small but vocal community who can see whats wrong fron right but defend the wrong doers from the 10% mentioned above who actually have big enough balls to sort the situation.
The 10% who do something to help, and to sort things, get hurt. Sometimes they get damaged and physically suffer, but alot of the time they get pounded mentally by the oppressions of people without a tough enough mentality to stand on their own two feet.
And there is 0.1% of people, who know whats right, and feel the urge....they seethe inside, and one day they let it go. From then on its down to luck and chaos theory as to whthere they become Hero's or Villains.
Bloke owns farm middle of no where, no police support, shoots two pikeys robbing him and kills one. Villain?
Woman stands up to muggers, gets hit so hard she dies. Fool? Hero?
Super Power leader maintains his authority over a land his country has dominated for decades, has minimal resources to police it effectively, and one day a few people take 300 hostages, mainly kids, and threaten the entire state, literally at gunpoint with their beliefs. Thats harder.....but the man who has to decide had the hardest job. To go in or not. To risk people and children to sort it or to sit and wait.
ANd to make the decision and then be both hero and villain, according to belief.
What would the UK public have done on a referendum, given a 24 hour window to decide. Or the US people? Even the Russian people. Would they have been hero or villain?
The world we live in is deep, and painfull, but the few chosen to decide for us, smetimes need support, not criticism.
I know this is a cryptic answer, but I dont know what you all feel, and I dont really understand my own feelings on this one. But Vladimir is a strong man. Bush and Blair have a challenge with him.
And there are some people who even though they know the truth keep portraying looneys as heroes. Tony Martin was a criminal on multiple grounds; he shouldn't have had firearms at all after having had his license revoked for popping potshots off at vehicles passing his property. He possessed a pump-action that would have been illegal even if he could have possessed firearms legally, due to its magazine capacity. He pursued fleeing people who at that point represented no threat to him and shot them in the back (after taking his illegal shotguns to local meetings and bragging that that's what he'd do). Now those neds were criminals, and the surviving one was arrested, charged and convicted and received a typical custodial sentence for a domestic burglar. Martin was convicted of murder by a jury of 12 ordinary people - it's the legal system that so many on these forums rail against that actually showed some leniency towards Martin by reducing his conviction to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility (but people don't like being reminded that Martin was diagnosed with a severe personality disorder, i.e. the sort of disorder that can get you detained even where you HAVEN'T committed an offence). The attempt to sue Martin by the surviving burglar was rightly laughed out of court. By the legal system again.
Now I abhor the attack on the School, utterly. But associating it with the actions of a gun toting lunatic (albeit one that you happen to agree with rather than one that shoots up a school) cheapens the lives taken in that tragedy and perpetuates an utter myth that Martin was unfairly treated.
If you want to raise the "land that his country has dominated for decades" argument here, by the way, that would be the land where due to the actions of the Russian government, their cities have been reduced to rubble and more than 70% of women have lost a family member. And no, that doesn't excuse or justify the actions of the terrorists at that school in any way, but pretending that the Russian government is squeaky clean when they've killed tens of thousands of Chechen civilians is just obscene. And that still doesn't justify the terrorists' actions.
It's also worth noting that by creating that situation in Chechnya, the Russian government has provided an extremely fertile recruitment ground for Islamic militants like Al Qaeda who have been able to capitalise on the utter disaster of Russian military action in Chechnya and gain recruits by the score. Well done Putin *slow handclap*. I'm sure we're ALL a lot safer for that...
Last edited by nichomach; 04-09-2004 at 01:49 PM.
That is an EXTREMELY good point, and we both know that religious fundamentalists (most Muslims aren't in the same way that most Christians aren't) would rather the ignorance option - in that sense, what they want is a religious rather than secular totalitarianism; Stalinist Russia with the added bonus of (as they see it) a seal of approval from God. They want a state where to even question the government promulgated orthodoxy is in itself a crime. Course, I wouldn't draw ANY parallels with the implementation of the Patriot Act and other fun bits of legislation by a government so closely associated with fundamentalist Christians
Last edited by nichomach; 04-09-2004 at 02:09 PM. Reason: Spolling chikk
I know...thats why I said "Dominated", rather than "Loved and Cared for".
And something else that people debating Russia must understand. It's different to England. The people think differently. I am not saying the like to be DOMINATED, who does? But then they probably dont like being Russian either some days. Does that mean Russian politicians should just wander out, and leave them to be their own state? I apolgise for demeaning the deaths of those children. Not my intention. But I must also ask UK people to try to harden their views on what other countries believe to be "normal everyday" stuff. Russian's and states controlled by Russia, are different to us. They dont thnik like us. To destroy towns and cities is hell. But I would be happy to lay a bet that the people of Russia were in the majority behind Putin. They would have wanted him to go wading in. The last terrorist siege left lots of innocents dead. Because Russia politicians went the hard route. But the people respected them for it. In Russia you are hard pressed to be in power if you dont dominate. Its not like England. You dont get peacefull protest marches and banners and massive leafelt drop campaigns. You get killed. Or tortured. Or maimed. Its a different world. Should we put our way of life on them. It would be blummin hard. I look forward to visiting Russia one day. But I wont go now cos I'm a scaredy cat.
I essence tho, the man (Putin) had no choice.
Is that how any politics work? No. A country can't be seen to be weak willed. If you believe you own something, you must defend it (dont mean Martin, but by coincidence.....)
DO we NEED the Falklands? Nope. So should we have let the Argentinians take it? Nope.
Same for Putin. He must defend what he believes to be his EVEN IF HE TREATS IT BADLY ANYWAY.
you dont mention the woman who was mugged and who stood up to the muggers? any reason?
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