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Ok, let's see which of you atheists has balls. Yep, truly. A lot of you are just reactionaries - you give kneejerk responses, quote kneejerk passages which you either take out of context or deliberately use to justify your own prejudices, or are just plain oblivious. Same old, same old. In those aforementioned 25 years, I have heard most of it before.Originally Posted by TeePee
Now, here's the thing. You REALLY have a quest for truth? REALLY? Can't consider Christianity because too many things stick in your throat?
Have a listen to this via the podcast here - the 2nd one, about Reasons
is a 43min podcast taken from www.mosaic.org, by this guy Erwin McManus. He keeps it real, talks about scepticism, using your brain etc, and for Teepee, answers the question he raised in the quote above, about the adultery.
I truly expect very few of you to bother to listen. Too busy, too cynical, too prejudiced, etc. Well, that's why I said, it's for those who REALLY are on a pursuit of truth, who want to leave no stone unturned.
For those Christians out there who don't know either Mosaic or Erwin, he is The Business. WELL worth subscribing to his podcasts. He is pastor for a church in LA, that grew from meeting in hardcore nightclubs to something awesome.
Last edited by fuddam; 21-01-2006 at 04:05 PM.
Leave no stone un turned.... that would mean there would be no end.
I would rather be drawn into farming machinery than waste my time finding out
something i knew at the start.
Ok, let's see which of you atheists has balls. Yep, truly. A lot of you are just reactionaries - you give kneejerk responses, quote kneejerk passages which you either take out of context or deliberately use to justify your own prejudices, or are just plain oblivious. Same old, same old. In those aforementioned 25 years, I have heard most of it before.
Now, here's the thing. You REALLY have a quest for truth? REALLY? Can't consider Christianity because too many things stick in your throat?
Have a listen to this via the podcast here - the 2nd one, about Reasons
is a 43min podcast taken from www.mosaic.org, by this guy Erwin McManus. He keeps it real, talks about scepticism, using your brain etc, and for Teepee, answers the question he raised in the quote above, about the adultery.
I truly expect very few of you to bother to listen. Too busy, too cynical, too prejudiced, etc. Well, that's why I said, it's for those who REALLY are on a pursuit of truth, who want to leave no stone unturned.
For those Christians out there who don't know either Mosaic or Erwin, he is The Business. WELL worth subscribing to his podcasts. He is pastor for a church in LA, that grew from meeting in hardcore nightclubs to something awesome.
Why are you a Christian fuddam, specifically?
To err is human. To really foul things up ... you need a computer.
Indoctrinated from birth. God speaks to him.
Wow. I'll never get that 45 minutes back. I almost stopped listening when Erwin (who sounds a bit like Emo Philips on ecstasy) said that followers have their eyes open but to be fair there are plenty of laudable moral codes in there, it's just a shame that the creed is religious in nature.
Sure, I'd be a better man if I 'followed' Jesus' moral codes a little more strictly. Let's just not confuse a good man with a god man.
respect, for exploring all the avenues
Moderate christianity is filled with laudable moral codes, and noone is saying it isn't. It's the right-wing christians, those who take the bible literally (and usually only the part which supports their particular cause), who are the problem. It's much the same with Islam, which is often demonised for it's minority of fundamentalist clerics.
This is the good part of religions, the part which does contribute something. Moral guidence to followers of a paricular lifestyle. But this is where religion should end. Religion does not encompass fact or truth, only belief. As such, yes, it should be taught in schools. Children should be taught ABOUT all the worlds religions, impartially. What they should not be taught is that any particular religion's contradictory beliefs are an alternative to facts supported by evidence.
And thats an argument without mentioning christianity or science.
- to irritate you
- because I was indoctrinated
- because I'm incapable of rational thought
- because I desperately need a crutch to get through my miserable existence
- because I have nothing better to do
- because I need a burden
- because I like rules
- because I prefer others to think for me
- because it's easier
- because I'm a victim of a vicious, brutal, fascist religious regime
not
I found this interesting :-
and this is just funny....Premise:
1. An omnipotent and omniscient God would create organisms that have optimal design.
2. Organisms have features that are suboptimal.
3. Therefore, God did not create organisms.
Examples of "poor design"
* the existence of the pharynx, a passage used for both ingestion and respiration, with the consequent drastic increase in the risk of choking.
* the urinary tract in the human male, especially the unnecessary passage of the urethra through the prostate gland. As the prostate almost always grows with age, it eventually compresses the urethra and often makes urination difficult or even impossible.
* barely used nerves and muscles (e.g. Plantaris muscle) that are missing in part of the human population and are routinely harvested as spare parts if needed during operations.
* intricate reproductive devices in orchids, apparently constructed from components commonly used for different purposes in other flowers.
* the use by pandas of their enlarged radial sesamoid bones in a manner similar to how other creatures use thumbs.
* the pointless existence of the appendix in humans, and the corresponding potentially fatal condition of appendicitis
* the seemingly "backward-facing" arrangement of photoreceptors (and the related blind spots) within the retinas of many organisms, including all mammals.
* portions of DNA — termed "junk" DNA — that are claimed not to serve any purpose.
* photosynthetic plants that reflect green light, even though the sun's peak output is at this wavelength. A more optimal system of photosynthesis would use the entire solar spectrum, thus resulting in black plants.
* the structure of the human eye. The retina is "inside out" in that nerves and blood vessels lie on the surface of the retina instead of behind it as in invertebrate species. Six muscles move the eye when three would suffice. [1]
* crowded teeth and poor sinus drainage, as human faces are significantly flatter than those of other primates and yet we share their tooth set.
It can be argued that any designer of life was inept or sadistic.Finally, this is a laugh a minute.Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Last edited by obvious; 21-01-2006 at 09:13 PM.
this world is corrupt, since the figurative or literal fall of man. read a bit of genesis - details how the world will be full of pain etc etc.
Also, as any Christian would tell you, this world is not the beginning and end of existence, it's merely a testing ground, a place of training - the perfect world awaits.
yeah, can hear you laughing, even without voip.
agreed, is funny.and this is just funny....
Is also an example of a rule-led religion, sounds more like Islam or Judaism, where 'good' behaviour is the route to salvation, rather than it being given free of charge via grace. Christ came to free humankind from such a legalistic understanding of God's word. Things like the 10 Commandments are to HELP people, not create a rigid framework within which we struggle to live, just as any parent will tell his children what is good behaviour and what is not, for their own sake.
People just love to create rules - witness society in the UK, which must be one of the most strictly governed places in the world IMHO, and those rules are secular.
But did He really have to take it out on the plants and animals by ruining their perfection? Seems a bit malicious.
So I've read most of Genesis (skipped a few bits) and cant find anything about the world being full of pain. It seems to run like this :-
There's the unfortunate incident with Cain and Abel then a lot of begatting and wickedness until the big G decided enough was enough and decided to destroy man except for Noah ("a just man and perfect in his generations") and his family. After the flood there's a nice bit about rainbows. Abram gets on very well with G and goes into Canaan. G decides to give Abram a grander name and calls him Abraham instead. Abraham is well pleased even though he's agreed that his descendants no longer need their foreskins (could this be the pain reference?) . In return for the foreskins, there was blessing and back slapping all round. G got bored and decided to test Abraham by asking him to kill Isaac his own son but he was only kidding so all's well that ends well.
Wow you're really quite the smarty pants, or are you actually a forum troll?- to irritate you
- because I was indoctrinated
- because I'm incapable of rational thought
- because I desperately need a crutch to get through my miserable existence
- because I have nothing better to do
- because I need a burden
- because I like rules
- because I prefer others to think for me
- because it's easier
- because I'm a victim of a vicious, brutal, fascist religious regime
not
Perhaps try answering the question without attempting to find refuge in sarcasm. I was actually genuinely interested to hear your answer.
Infact don't bother. It is clear to me now from your responses that indeed you are a forum troll, or would make a rather good one. A very lacking demonstration of the things I believed a Christian would hold dear. You may well be an immature child however, I honestly don't know and no longer care. You may though still answer the question. If you do so I think it would be quite insightful not only to the original question to this topic, but the discussion that has evolved from that (sorry i used the word evolved, it has multiple meanings y'know! (rats, now I'm on the sarcasm)).
Last edited by yamangman; 21-01-2006 at 11:41 PM.
To err is human. To really foul things up ... you need a computer.
sarcasm? you brought it to the thread, Johnny-come-lately, as well as insults
*sigh*
um.................try this on for size:
God made the earth for Adam (humankind) and He made it to suit him perfectly. No want for food, shelter, clothing, etc. All he had to do was listen to God, and why? Why does a parent want a child to listen to it? Because the parent knows what's best for the child. That simple.
Adam chose to reject that authority, that guidance, that direction. Consequence: he was punished, and thrown out of that perfect place (Eden). Adam had brought sin into the equation. Sin taints everything. Corruption is corruption - it does not choose what to infect.
Genesis 3:16 - the pain
Genesis 3:17 - 19 - the "curse on the ground"
coolio thing is that was not what God wanted as a future for humankind, so Christ died to restore our perfect relationship to God, free of charge. No hard work required on our part (unlike some other religions which preach good works get you heavenwards)
and why does the Bible talk about Christ being the only way to the Father?
Because it is only through Christ's death and resurrection that the relationship be restored. As we are, we are tainted with the corruption.
Regardless of what the other religions teach, none of them have that element: the divine sacrifice required to restore our relationship to God. And Christ died for all, not just for a specific race / belief / nationality. He died so that anyone anywhere can be restored in relationship, to (eventual) perfect happiness.
A lotta sceptics have a hassle with that statement, but I find it tends to be an issue of misperception.
just so you know, the Bible is also unique in that it is the only religious book that is about a God in pursuit of His people, NOT people in pursuit of nirvana / heaven / redemption. He is constantly trying to rebuild and restore happiness to humankind, but (like spoilt children) we continually choose to be stubborn and wilful.
there ya go
Last edited by fuddam; 22-01-2006 at 01:02 AM.
see the 'not'?
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