Should the government put a cap on migrant workers?

[directhex]

Think of where the USA would be without migrant workers....

still speaking uto-aztecan and siouan-catawban?

[frumpet]

I'm sure the tribes also ran polls on whether to cap migrant workers or not...

[Swafe]

1) In fact, native British people are not a minority.

2) Asylum seekers and immigrants are two completely different groups as well you know.

3) It's not that they lack knowledge of what the NHS offers - in fact a great number of them will work in the NHS - it's that on average they are younger and healthier than the average native and hence require less treatment. Also, consider the fact that not only are they net contributors to both the economy and the treasury but that they contribute more than the average Brit (because they are almost certain to be working). So even if they consumed as much treatment per head as the average Brit - which they don't, remember - they would still not only be paying their own way but also subsidising a British granny somewhere to boot.

1) Aye for sure, I never said they was, but 600,000 people is 1% of the UKs population, in 100 years, if that continued, we would be 50/50... how do you know that would not happen? I think the fact that somebody has suggested there should be a cap is meaningfull, why even suggest a cap, is there was no benefit? Surely it will benefit one part of society

2) Indeed, however they both share the same thing, coming into our country... which was part of my arguement for why caps should poetentially be put in place

3) Well, Im no expert so I cannot say, possibly a polish person is on average more healthy than a brit, I certainly have no idea - you claim they contribute more to the NHS per head than anyone else... I'm not sure if they have to pay some extra tax for being a non british citezen, if so maybe you could inform me, if not, refering to your previous post where you said they earn less than scamming cowboys (Which not all British skilled tradesmen are.. ) if they earn less, surely they fit into a lower tax percentage bracket on average, ergo, pay less tax? You cannot take into account its average GDP per head either.. as that link states 93% are in work, where the currently unemployment rate in the UK is 4.8%, hence 95.2% in work.

87.5% of the british population in the last census described themselves as "white british"

only Newham and Brent, in London, have more non-whites than whites

Minor effect, think long term, not short term, were not all dying because we have cars, but give it a while and this country could poetentially be in some global warming dilemma

[iranu]

The problem is two-fold.

1. A large influx of foriegn workers puts massive strain on the services.

Services are; schools, hospitals, roads, housing, waste collection, energy, transport, councils, etc etc.

2. Foriegn workers will work for wages below the wages of the poorest in Britain (aswell as everyone else but it affects the poorest most)

Therefore, it is wise to limit the numbers of migrants in order to balance the needs of the indiginous population and those of the migrants. When there is an imbalance, as I believe there is now, then it is not beyond the dimmist to see that there will be trouble.

Limiting immigration is not racist, it is a mechanism that allows a country to assess it's needs and to provide the infrastructure to meet those needs. Britain should primarily be for the people that were born here and it is their needs that require addressing first. Immigration is an important aspect but it should not be the be all and end all otherwise you might aswell allow 25 million chinese to come and work here for wages 1/25th of the UK average because it's good for the economy.

[badass]

Sounds like a load of paranoia. I dont see a need to cap workers from the EU, and workers from elsewhere in the world are capped. Its just the Gov't are such a bunch of incompetant morons that they cap people with the skills this country needs and allow in the people who are joining already overcrwoded industries. During the IT recession where 2/3rds of contractors were unemployed they were STILL letting in immigrant IT staff.

[mart_haj86]

I have said that they should put a cap on migrant workers, purely because it is becoming increasingly difficult these days to find a job.

[coco]

i voted no to a cap it would be hypocritical of me considering i have family that live and work in the US, Australia and Japan .
Migration works both ways with loads of brits going to work abroad in US,Saudia etc.
Most if not all the recent migrant workers are hard working young people looking to work in the uk for a few years doing jobs most brits wouldnt get out of bed for and then returning to there country of orign.

[JPreston]

1) ...600,000 people is 1% of the UKs population, in 100 years, if that continued, we would be 50/50... how do you know that would not happen? I think the fact that somebody has suggested there should be a cap is meaningfull, why even suggest a cap, is there was no benefit? Surely it will benefit one part of society

I don't understand that arithmetic, what's 600k, is that the total number of EU immigrants arriving since 2001 (that's five years) as per the right wing tabloids? In which case if you assume that:

i) The native UK population is stable (fair enough)
ii) That all immigrants stay in the UK forever (not true - most go home after a few years)
iii) That all immigrants live forever ( )

Then yes after 500 years they will represent 50% of the population, and some of them will be 500 years old and hence probably a burden on the NHS by that time. They need to live forever because the children of permanent settlers will by definition not be immigrants themselves...unless of course you really are thinking in terms of race after all

I'm not going to go into 2) because of course asylum seekers are not an economic asset because they are prevented from working, even though many will be educated and skilled. The question of whether as a civilised nation we should offer sanctuary to the persecuted or abandon them to torture and death is a moral, and not an economic one, so let's agree to disagree on that point.

3) ...possibly a polish person is on average more healthy than a brit, ...you claim they contribute more to the NHS per head than anyone else... I'm not sure if they have to pay some extra tax for being a non british citezen...if they earn less, surely they fit into a lower tax percentage bracket on average, ergo, pay less tax? You cannot take into account its average GDP per head either.. as that link states 93% are in work, where the currently unemployment rate in the UK is 4.8%, hence 95.2% in work.

Ah here I see that I have misphrased a couple of points, and you have misread a couple of others. An average Pole is not more healthy than the average Brit, but of those Poles who are over here working, they are younger and healthier and more able-bodied than the average Brit. This is because the average Brit includes the elderly and infirm whereas only Poles who are capable of working come here to work (and since they can't claim benefits, they all come here to work).

They don't pay more into the treasury than anyone else in absolute terms, but all other things being equal immigrants pay a slightly higher (~3%) percentage of their income as taxes due to a combination of poor tax planning and moving from job to job while on emergency tax. (No there is no special 'immigrant tax').

If they earn less, they may have a lower marginal rate of income tax BUT our world is such that the poor pay a higher proportion of their income as tax overall, once you include non-income related taxes such as council tax, fuel duty, VAT etc. Whereas the well off are able to reduce their tax bill through planning and at the extreme end people like Philip Green and Mick Jagger actually pay £nil in UK income taxes.

Finally - this is the really big error in your post - taking your percentages at face value it is 93% of ALL immigrants who are in work whearas it's only 95.2% of the native WORKFORCE ONLY. The native workforce is about 20 million, or one third of the native population (i.e. take out children, students, those on sick notes and the elderly) - thus these poles are about THREE TIMES more likely to be in work and contributing the economy

[Agent]

Yes, I believe that there should be a cap put on immigration at the moment – notice I said a cap, and not stopping immigration completely, and this is purely down to one reason.

In May this year, unemployment stood at around 1.59 million, according to the beeb. Not sure what the current figure would stand at, but it would be within a few percent of that figure, id imagine.
1.59 million, is a lot of people.
If there are jobs available, then they should be given to the people that are currently in the country and unemployed. A large number of people coming into the UK, are low skilled workers, a lot of the time on minimum wage. There is no reason why some of the blinking 1.59 million that are unemployed can’t take these jobs instead.
People who have a specialist skill, and who will contribute to the country are the only people who should be given relatively easy entrance in my opinion.


There are too many people that are quite happy to sponge off the state, and don’t work, simply “because”. In my opinion, these people, provided they are able, should be forced to take available jobs, as opposed to brining more people into the country to do them. I am very much of the view that “if you don’t work, don’t expect a meal at the end of the day”.

I just cant get my head around why we need to bring people into the country, for low skilled work, when we have a pool of available people already living here…..

[directhex]

Yes, I believe that there should be a cap put on immigration at the moment – notice I said a cap, and not stopping immigration completely, and this is purely down to one reason.

In May this year, unemployment stood at around 1.59 million, according to the beeb. Not sure what the current figure would stand at, but it would be within a few percent of that figure, id imagine.
1.59 million, is a lot of people.
If there are jobs available, then they should be given to the people that are currently in the country and unemployed. A large number of people coming into the UK, are low skilled workers, a lot of the time on minimum wage. There is no reason why some of the blinking 1.59 million that are unemployed can’t take these jobs instead.
People who have a specialist skill, and who will contribute to the country are the only people who should be given relatively easy entrance in my opinion.


There are too many people that are quite happy to sponge off the state, and don’t work, simply “because”. In my opinion, these people, provided they are able, should be forced to take available jobs, as opposed to brining more people into the country to do them. I am very much of the view that “if you don’t work, don’t expect a meal at the end of the day”.

I just cant get my head around why we need to bring people into the country, for low skilled work, when we have a pool of available people already living here…..

1.6M is about 4.6% employment, which is actually pretty good on a global scale (lowest in Europe for one thing). the EU average is 8.8%. germany stands at about 12.6%. portugal at 6.9%. and crucially, poland at 18.2%. there are poles out of work, who get work by coming to the UK. makes sense doesn't it?

it is *impossible* to achieve 0% unemployment, due to the following:

* skills gap, where those unemployed are not trained to do the jobs which are available
* snobbery, where someone with a masters' degree will not take a vacant supermarket job
* inevitability, where people have recently been downsized, are looking for work, have moved hourse, etc etc etc.

five people out of 100 out of work split between the above three categories isn't many, and it isn't a problem. you're not gonna want untrained brits performing operations on you when there are trained europeans to fill those jobs, right?

[badass]

1.6M is about 4.6% employment, which is actually pretty good on a global scale (lowest in Europe for one thing). the EU average is 8.8%. germany stands at about 12.6%. portugal at 6.9%. and crucially, poland at 18.2%. there are poles out of work, who get work by coming to the UK. makes sense doesn't it?

it is *impossible* to achieve 0% unemployment, due to the following:

* skills gap, where those unemployed are not trained to do the jobs which are available
* snobbery, where someone with a masters' degree will not take a vacant supermarket job
* inevitability, where people have recently been downsized, are looking for work, have moved hourse, etc etc etc.

five people out of 100 out of work split between the above three categories isn't many, and it isn't a problem. you're not gonna want untrained brits performing operations on you when there are trained europeans to fill those jobs, right?

Just to further add that approximately 2% of the population are "completely unemployable"
That leaves the rest being 1 in 50 people that are employable are unemployed. thats not bad.

The question is: What do we do with the unemployable through their own choice?

[directhex]

The question is: What do we do with the unemployable through their own choice?

send them to poland! they'd probably be unemployed anyway!

[coco]

there are too many people that are quite happy to sponge off the state, and don’t work, simply “because”. In my opinion, these people, provided they are able, should be forced to take available jobs, as opposed to brining more people into the country to do them. I am very much of the view that “if you don’t work, don’t expect a meal at the end of the day”.

the unemployed are now compelled to take jobs if they refuse benefits are cut or withdrawn completely,
The real problem isn't work shy people but people without the necessary skills to match vacancies in the employment market, what most east european migrants have are the skills to fill these jobs and a willingness to take jobs at low rates of pay for the uk, but at about 3 times the wage rate in there native countries.
In my area a local bakery employs a lot of polish workers because they are skilled bakers
but at the same time won't recruit locals because they would incur cost's in training them !

[[GSV]Trig]

We have lots of migrant workers where I work, it can be a good thing, lots of them come over to improve there English.
It can however push the pay down due to them working for less generally.
It also gives students less work over the summer holiday as jobs that would generally be taken by students are being taken by migrant workers, the knock on effect of this is either more student debt or less people going to uni as they cant afford it.

[Alex Berry]

You saying all whites are the same Directhex? Racist bastard!
Your "racial breakdown" is irrelevant.
For ALL peoples!

[directhex]

You saying all whites are the same Directhex? Racist bastard!

the first instance of the word "white" in this thread is by you.

yet again, i fail to understand what the buggery**** you're going on about