Mini ITX build for girlfriend - office / light gaming £400

[DanceswithUnix]

I'm the girlfriend in question and I've not got the foggiest what most of this is about other than that price plus a few other considerations are foremost but, whatever "him indoors" says, gaming *isn't*!!! ;-P

I expect most of us have been burnt by "it won't be used for games" as a requirement, to have in a matter of weeks "but it won't run Sims" or similar I always try and make sure machines are easily upgraded to games, or like this one can cope with basics.

It should be a lovely machine though, hope you have years of enjoyment out of it.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Have you seen in one of these cases Cat? I have never bothered with modular PSU before, but I just couldn't see where to tie all the cables with my Corsair and very quickly gave up. With a modular PSU it is nice & tidy with good airflow now.

The Zalman is not modular though.

I use SFF PCs though. Sleeve bearing fans and cheaper capacitors,in a SFF PC,no way.

[trippedup]

As long as it does the basics, it's fine - I haven't much time to spend on games, anyway, whereas Ciber loves them, which is why he wants my PC to be able to run the complicated ones!

Thanks for your kind words - I know he'll do a great job as he's been building computers for years and I trust him implicitly to get the best components for the best deals without breaking my budget. In fact, he found 3 components last night (including the Coolermaster case, as mentioned above) for better prices and has now ordered them

[Ciber]

This is what I ordered last night. Saving £22 off the total.

1 Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced Mini-ITX Case with Full Size VGA Support,upto 3x3.5" or 4x2.5" HDD £23.99 £28.79
1 1TB Seagate ST1000DM003 Barracuda 7200.14 SATA 6Gb/s 7200rpm 64mb Cache 8ms NCQ OEM £41.99 £50.39
1 450W XFX Pro Core Edition P1-450S-X2B9, 85% Eff', 80 PLUS Bronze, SLI/CrossFire, EPS 12V, Fan, ATX v2.31, PSU £29.45 £35.34
Sub Total £95.43
Carriage £0.00
VAT £19.09
Total £114.52

You'll want 2 sticks of RAM to run in dual channel mode, or you're going to kill the graphics performance. I looked at single channel v. dual channel memory in my A6-3670k review - the performance difference in games between 2x 2GB and 1x 4GB was 20% - 30%. The A10-5700 has an even faster GPU, so it gets even more bandwidth starved, which means you'll see even more improvement, just by using 2 sticks of memory instead of one.

Ideally, you want dual channel 1866+:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/c...dt1tx0ceu.html - 2x 4GB normal profile kit £45
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/c...e1tx0ceu..html - 2x 4GB high profile heatsinks £41

But a dual channel 1600MHz kit would be better than one stick:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/c...ds1s00ceu.html - 2x 2GB normal profile £23

Unfortunately 4GB kits of 1866+ memory are in short supply and cost almost as much as 8GB kits...

The faster the memory you put in the build, the better the graphics will perform. The hexus lads did a great Trinity memory scaling review which you really should read - even going from 1600MHz to 1866MHz can yield 5% - 10% performance increase. One stick of 1600MHz RAM is going to kill the benefit of using a trinity APU...

Thanks for this information. Definitely worth going dual channel RAM! My machine is triple channel which I don't think is needed but dual channel is!

Having fully read the articles it seems dual channel 1600MHz RAM is what Hexus used to test the AMD 5700. The 5% benefit from going to 1600 to 1866MHz is not that large. I tend to think the difference between 55fps and 53fps in games will not be noticed.

The thing is if we save £25 on RAM then I can put in a bigger SSD and 60gb just feels too small. I've been installing Win 8 on an old 60gb SSD and it is already half full before anything much is installed. I can deal with installing some things on C: and some on another drive but it is too annoying and confusing really. It could trip up trippedup!

I found this crucial (2GBx2), Ballistix 240-pin DIMM, DDR3 PC3-14900 (1866): http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/part...D1869DT1TX0CEU for £35 as a middle RAM choice but not sure if it's worth it.

So the choice is:


http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/c...dt1tx0ceu.html - 2x 4GB 1866 normal profile kit £45
+
SanDisk SSD SATA 6Gb/s 2.5" 64GB Solid State Hard Drive £45

or

http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/c...ds1s00ceu.html - 2x 2GB 1600 normal profile £23
+
OCZ Agility 3 SATA III 2.5" 120GB Solid State Hard Drive
Read Speed: 500MB/Sec, Write Speed: 475MB/Sec, Flash: MLC, Controller: SandForce SF-2281. £70.98


Or this SSD: SanDisk SSD SATA III 2.5" 128GB Solid State Hard Drive
Read Speed: 490MB/Sec, Write Speed: 350MB/Sec, Flash: MLC. £72.98 inc vat

Is the OCZ drive OK? It's stats seem better than the Sandisk.

I think it will be much easier to upgrade the RAM later if a performance boost is needed than upgrade the C drive.

[trippedup]

The thing is if we save £25 on RAM then I can put in a bigger SSD and 60gb just feels too small. I've been installing Win 8 on an old 60gb SSD and it is already half full before anything much is installed. I can deal with installing some things on C: and some on another drive but it is too annoying and confusing really. It could trip up trippedup!

Low opinion of my abilities but, as long as you're saving me money, that's fine
Hope you get some useful suggestions on your other comments!

[Ciber]

Low opinion of my abilities but, as long as you're saving me money, that's fine
Hope you get some useful suggestions on your other comments!

Not being condescending. I find it a pain in the bum and somtimes confusing having a C drive that is too small and program files spread across several drives. 'Now which drive should I install this on.... hmmm... oh not enough space... Ok that one.' Later that day... 'I can't find the installation in program files... errrr... oh yeah it's on the other drive!' etc. etc.

[Homeking]

The motherboard is £5 cheaper than your list price at Scan:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/msi-f...-hdmi-mini-itx

but not due in stock until next week if you can wait.

Just waiting to see what's on the Scan "Today Only" weekend offers as they often have processors and RAM up at the weekend.

With luck you could save the extra needed for the larger SSD and have the faster RAM keeping within budget.

Very little experience of SSDs so can't really advise on brands.

[Pob255]

Sorry I'm late to this one.

As a CM elite 120 owner I can say that modular is nice, there is plenty of space in it to put non modular psu cables. esp without a graphics card.
But overall modular is easier to cope with, will depend on how many cables you actually need and use.

A couple of things I would add to the build.
1x 120mm fan filter, add it to the 120mm front fan
1x fan speed adaptor (the short adaptor with a resistor on it), use this on the 80mm slim fan on the side, also flip it over to blow air out not intake, doing this greatly reduces the noise it makes and it's the main source of noise in this case.

my review/mods of it are here http://forums.hexus.net/chassis-mods...ni-review.html
Modding it by cutting out the side vents and replacing them with some type of mesh is another way to have a major impact on the noise.

Bit late now you've bought it but I would of said have a look at the silverstone or be quiet! modular psu's 400-500w

[Biscuit]

I have a load of fan adaptor/speed reducers. Let me know if you need one and i can post it to you.

[scaryjim]

OCZ Sandforce based drives == nono, according to most people.

Ebuyer have 4GB DDR3-1600 kits as cheap as £20, with plenty under £25. 4GB should be plenty of memory, even with the IGP grabbing some (I used 4GB in my APU-based HTPC and it's plenty fast enough).

tbh 120GB SSDs are no longer the sweet spot for value: the Samsung 250GB 840 can be had for as little as £123: http://www.ebuyer.com/409850-samsung...sd-mz-7td250bw - if you can find a way to put another £50 on the budget I think it'd be well worth it.

Alternatively (and slightly out of left field ), you could go for the 750GB seagate momentus XT as the only drive in the system: cheaper than an SSD plus mechanical drive, and less messing with where to install things. http://www.ebuyer.com/321969-seagate...ssd-st750lx003 reviews were fairly positive, and the 750GB version has a larger SSD cache

EDIT: ah, you've already bought the 1TB drive. Probably not worth considering the momentus XT then...

[Ciber]

OCZ Sandforce based drives == nono, according to most people.

Thanks. That may have saved us some trouble. I did wonder why they are cheaper and yet higher stats.

Ebuyer have 4GB DDR3-1600 kits as cheap as £20, with plenty under £25. 4GB should be plenty of memory, even with the IGP grabbing some (I used 4GB in my APU-based HTPC and it's plenty fast enough).

They do have several. The cheapest having silly prongs on the top for £20. I would have to check with the mobo in the case if there is room for that. The next has flashing LEDs on it which could be irritating if they can be seen from outside the case. Anyway RAM for £23 or less means 120gb SSD so that's good.

tbh 120GB SSDs are no longer the sweet spot for value: the Samsung 250GB 840 can be had for as little as £123: http://www.ebuyer.com/409850-samsung...sd-mz-7td250bw - if you can find a way to put another £50 on the budget I think it'd be well worth it.

Alternatively (and slightly out of left field ), you could go for the 750GB seagate momentus XT as the only drive in the system: cheaper than an SSD plus mechanical drive, and less messing with where to install things. http://www.ebuyer.com/321969-seagate...ssd-st750lx003 reviews were fairly positive, and the 750GB version has a larger SSD cache

EDIT: ah, you've already bought the 1TB drive. Probably not worth considering the momentus XT then...

I did consider the hybrid drives but it seems to me they are more suited to a laptop where you can only have one drive. Some of the benefit of an SSD but not all. I think of it as some of the expense of an SSD with some of the slowness of a disk.

I did find this:

Sandisk 120GB Ultra SSD
- 2.5" SATA-II
- Read 280MB/s Write 270MB/s
- 30,000 IOPS 4K Random Write
- 3 Year Manufacturer Warranty
£58
http://www.ebuyer.com/288065-sandisk...dssdh-120g-g25

With 'Ultra' seeming to mean slower and cheaper! A new twist on that word then. Then again those read and write speeds are maybe more like a first generation SSD but when I upgraded to a faster SSD the real difference was not noticeable. Maybe in a benchmark but this is not to be a machine for that. Or am i way off the mark?

[iamlorro]

I did find this:

Sandisk 120GB Ultra SSD
- 2.5" SATA-II
- Read 280MB/s Write 270MB/s
- 30,000 IOPS 4K Random Write
- 3 Year Manufacturer Warranty
£58
http://www.ebuyer.com/288065-sandisk...dssdh-120g-g25

With 'Ultra' seeming to mean slower and cheaper! A new twist on that word then. Then again those read and write speeds are maybe more like a first generation SSD but when I upgraded to a faster SSD the real difference was not noticeable. Maybe in a benchmark but this is not to be a machine for that. Or am i way off the mark?

It's the previous generation of SATA - i.e. SATA II ...SATA III is the latest and greatest- max throughput is 6Gb/s

The motherboard (MSI one on previous page, right?) is SATA III capable.

[Ciber]

It's the previous generation of SATA - i.e. SATA II ...SATA III is the latest and greatest- max throughput is 6Gb/s

The motherboard (MSI one on previous page, right?) is SATA III capable.

Yes I will be getting that mobo. I know it's not SATAIII but will that really notice outside of benchmarks? Hmmmm... *strokes chin*

[scaryjim]

I could be wrong on this, but I think the Sandisk Ultra is a Sandforce drive on SATA II. In real world terms, you won't really notice the difference between that and a SATA III SSD, whereas you will notice the difference between an HDD and the SSD. My only concern with the Sandisk Ultra is a shortage of information about it, particularly reliability. OTOH Sandisk support should be reasonable (they tend to do a lot of professional/enterprise grade products, so expect terse but knowledgable support staff ), and they've got a long history with solid state storage. They've also released a number of firmware updates for the Ultra series - updated firmware is a good sign for ongoing support (but make sure you update the drive to the latest firmware ASAP). The Ultra Plus (which is a SATA III drive) was pretty well received. For the price, it's hard to think of a reason against the Sandisk Ultra...

EDIT: just checked, it's a last generation SF1222 controller with Sandisk's own NAND. It means you'd be buying into old tech - OTOH that means most of the wrinkles will have been ironed out and it should be pretty reliable. Obviously your call, but at that price I don't see anything wrong with buying one...

[Ciber]

I could be wrong on this, but I think the Sandisk Ultra is a Sandforce drive on SATA II. In real world terms, you won't really notice the difference between that and a SATA III SSD, whereas you will notice the difference between an HDD and the SSD. My only concern with the Sandisk Ultra is a shortage of information about it, particularly reliability. OTOH Sandisk support should be reasonable (they tend to do a lot of professional/enterprise grade products, so expect terse but knowledgable support staff ), and they've got a long history with solid state storage. They've also released a number of firmware updates for the Ultra series - updated firmware is a good sign for ongoing support (but make sure you update the drive to the latest firmware ASAP). The Ultra Plus (which is a SATA III drive) was pretty well received. For the price, it's hard to think of a reason against the Sandisk Ultra...

EDIT: just checked, it's a last generation SF1222 controller with Sandisk's own NAND. It means you'd be buying into old tech - OTOH that means most of the wrinkles will have been ironed out and it should be pretty reliable. Obviously your call, but at that price I don't see anything wrong with buying one...

One person on ebuyer said it had a micro sata connector and buying an adaptor takes away from the value. I'm having misgivings about it now and the main drive is so much the core of a system it might be foolish to skimp on that.

[trippedup]

One person on ebuyer said it had a micro sata connector and buying an adaptor takes away from the value. I'm having misgivings about it now and the main drive is so much the core of a system it might be foolish to skimp on that.

Getting worried about the cost..... :-/