RMA Warranty Rejected

[davidcrofter]

Hi chaps.

After some advice here ...
basically I had arranged an RMA on an item with a certain supplier and they have told me that the RMA has been rejected because the original packaging is torn.

Now having looked into this a bit further it seems that they cannot refuse the RMA because of torn packaging, and this is taken from the Distance Selling Regulations:

"Can I insist that consumers who cancel an order within the
cancellation period return the goods as new or in their
original packaging?

3.58 No. Consumers are under a duty to take reasonable care of the goods
while in their possession as discussed in paragraph 3.44. The DSRs
allow consumers to examine goods they have ordered as they would
in a shop. If that requires opening the packaging and trying out the
goods then they have not breached their duty to take reasonable
care of the goods. In these circumstances you cannot insist that
consumers return the goods as new or in their original packaging.
You may ask consumers to return goods with the original packaging,
but you cannot insist on this. In the case of goods such as earrings
that have hygiene seals, you may require consumers to exercise
reasonable care by not removing the seals when examining them."

Any advice as to where I stand as the supplier in question despite me quoting this are still rejecting the RMA and want to send the item back to me.

Are they in the right to do this or are they breaking the DSR??

Edit: I should say that I was looking for a full refund on this item as I was within the 7 days.

thanks
david.

[scaryjim]

They're not breaking DSR, because you're not returning the item under DSR. Unless you've got your terminology confused.

RMA is returning faulty products. Hard to see how you could avoid opening the packaging under RMA conditions, as you'd need to try the product, find out it didn't work, then return it. So if you've opened the product, found out it's faulty, and are sending it back for repair or replacement, then that's an RMA and I can't see how they can refuse it for torn packaging.

DSR allows a "cooling off" period, where you can return the product *for any reason at all* - usually because it doesn't meet their needs. If your reason for return is one that could've been determined without opening the packaging, I believe the retailer may be within their rights to refuse a return under DSR.

So whether they are within their rights depends on why you are actually returning the product...?

[Jay]

how badly is the box ripped?

[Yosh]

If its been returned as faulty, the only reason they could wan't the box intact is if they were going to refund you for it, then re-sell the item again.

If the product has been used for an amount of time they could be reasonable and accept it back with a torn box.

Personally i've accepted products back at work with no boxes, i would suggest it varies company to company.

[davidcrofter]

Hi the item was returned in the 7 day cooling off period for a full refund - so it is not faulty. Whilst you say that it may vary from supplier to supplier, if it is there in black and white in the DSR then surely they must abide by that I would have thought.

The box has a flap torn off it and not sure where the other "tear" is, but it is pretty much intact and certainly the actual product is in no way damaged or marked.

[scaryjim]

Hi the item was returned in the 7 day cooling off period ... if it is there in black and white in the DSR then surely they must abide by that I would have thought.

From your quote from the DSR:

The DSRs allow consumers to examine goods they have ordered as they would in a shop. If that requires opening the packaging and trying out the goods then they have not breached their duty to take reasonable care of the goods.

So that only applies if you cannot reasonably examine the goods in question and decide if they are appropriate without opening the box. If you could reasonably examine the goods without opening the box and decide if they meet your purposes they are within their rights to refuse you. What was the item in question?

[davidcrofter]

Hi the item was an Xtreamer Media Player and as mentioned it wasn't faulty but just didn't live up to my expectations ... the packaging was a nightmare, not in the sense of opening but on trying to get everything BACK into the box is where the damage occurred.

I think the supplier are going to resend the item back to me so not sure if it is best just to bite the bullet, resell the Xtreamer and lose probably £30 in the process.

[Saracen]

It needs to be more than within the 7 days, though. You need to notify them that, in a permanent for (i.e. not by phone) that you are cancelling the order .... i.e. in the words of the DSR "give a notice of cancellation".

Does requesting an RMA, even if you did it in writing, by mail, email, fax. etc, constitute "cancellation"?

I'm afraid I rather doubt it, at least under some circumstances. If you organised an RMA for a replacement, or alternative goods, then it's hardly cancelling, IMHO.

Are you still within the 7 days, bearing in mind that's working days (excluding weekends and bank hols),and starts the day after you receive delivery? If so, get in a cancellation letter or equivalent, right quick. Oh, and for clarity, it's the fate you send that notice, not when it's received, that has to be within the 7 days, so if you do it by post, get proof of postage as it's that date that matters.

[peterb]

If you specifically rejected the goods under the DSR, in writing, within the cooling off period, then you should be refunded in full.If you 'only' requested an RMA to return the goods and didn't specifically quote the DSA, then there may be some doubt - however I am not a lawyer. If the seven day period has not yet expired, you may still be able to jeject the goods specifically. If it has, you may (but only may) be able to claim that requesting an RMA was in essence a rejection within the DSR. If the retailer concerned does not accept that, then you would then have to decide whether to try to enforce that in the courts through the fast track procedure (what used to be called the small claims court).

You may need want to contav=ct your local trading standards office for confirmation, and it would be useful if you have retained any audit trail, documents, proof of posting etc.

[davidcrofter]

It needs to be more than within the 7 days, though. You need to notify them that, in a permanent for (i.e. not by phone) that you are cancelling the order .... i.e. in the words of the DSR "give a notice of cancellation".

Does requesting an RMA, even if you did it in writing, by mail, email, fax. etc, constitute "cancellation"?

I'm afraid I rather doubt it, at least under some circumstances. If you organised an RMA for a replacement, or alternative goods, then it's hardly cancelling, IMHO.

Are you still within the 7 days, bearing in mind that's working days (excluding weekends and bank hols),and starts the day after you receive delivery? If so, get in a cancellation letter or equivalent, right quick. Oh, and for clarity, it's the fate you send that notice, not when it's received, that has to be within the 7 days, so if you do it by post, get proof of postage as it's that date that matters.

Hiya thanks for taking the time to reply, unfortunately well out of the 7 days.

Return was arranged through Scans system and I requested a refund which was agreed. Obviously I didn't quote the DSR as I didn't think there would be a problem.
I then got an email from Scan stating:

"Current status of your RMA: Awaiting Replacement / Credit

We can confirm your returned goods have now been tested by our technicians.

Please check your emails for further updates and thank you for your patience while we deal with your RMA."

then shortly after that got another email saying:
"Current status of your RMA: Rejected

We can confirm your returned goods have now been inspected by our technicians and the warranty has been rejected. Please contact our returns staff for assistance."

after speaking on the phone and the scan customer care section on their website they rejected the return because of torn packaging.

Unfortunately because of the winter break (this product was ordered in mid December) I was informed not to send the item back until the 4th of January so my proof of posting is outside the 7 days.

[davidcrofter]

If you specifically rejected the goods under the DSR, in writing, within the cooling off period, then you should be refunded in full.If you 'only' requested an RMA to return the goods and didn't specifically quote the DSA, then there may be some doubt - however I am not a lawyer. If the seven day period has not yet expired, you may still be able to jeject the goods specifically. If it has, you may (but only may) be able to claim that requesting an RMA was in essence a rejection within the DSR. If the retailer concerned does not accept that, then you would then have to decide whether to try to enforce that in the courts through the fast track procedure (what used to be called the small claims court).

You may need want to contav=ct your local trading standards office for confirmation, and it would be useful if you have retained any audit trail, documents, proof of posting etc.

Hi thaks for replying Peter,
as I say product was not rejected under DSR as such simply a refund was requested via Scans Returns system via the website which resulted in the RMA being issued.

I really don't like the way this has been handled at all truth be told as products need to be opened and then repacked in these situations so realistically they could refuse just about any return.

[roadkilluk]

For the DSR you dont need to quote them, the seller should already be informed of your rights, some places need reminding that DSR apply thats why you usually quote it. Also all you have to do is inform then within thouse 7 days, ie you need proof of postage of a letter saying you want to cancel your contract and return the item, and not the return the item within 7 days. Now if you contacted them in a qualifing way, ie by phone/email/fax i dont know, especially if there online form constitues that. If you can prove the previous, and that there was no way around ripping the box you should be able to get refunded. Also if you damaged the box when repacking it, you probably could of got round that by packing the box and item, (wrapping the item) seperatly as to not damage either, no part of the DSR says the item must be returned within the packing, only with the packing if nessersary.

[Saracen]

Well, I'd say it may still be wide open if you asked for the refund within the DSR cancellation period.

There's nothing in the DSR that says you have to stipulate that you're cancelling under the DSR, and there's nothing that stipulates any specific form of words needs to be used. You merely have to "give a notice of cancellation" in a durable form. So .... if you used a online system, and specifically asked for a refund then I'd think that the refund certainly implies cancellation so should qualify, and the RMA system is a durable form, because it isn't, effectively, either by phone or in person by voice, so it qualifies. The only issue would be whether you got this in in time or not, to be within the 7 working days and, as I said, it's when you gave notice that matters, not when (or indeed, even if) the goods went back.

[davidcrofter]

Hmm looks like Scan have just started in motion sending the Xtreamer back to me ... they better not have charged me for this or I WILL be raging!!

[Saracen]

Well, you'll probably have more joy telling them than telling us.

If you have a DSR case, then it's their problem if they do, but if not, then they may well be within their rights to do so.

[Rob_B]

From the information you've given, assuming you requested the RMA/Refund within 7 days & the only reason for them refusing the refund is the torn packaging then I'd say they are at fault.

If they're returned it to you while you were still disputing/didn't request it then I'd suggest you shouldn't pay for it & they need to pick it up again for a refund.

If they don't play ball then they seem to be in breach of DSR, take it to the next step if they won't budge