Overclockers.co.uk return policy - Entitled to a full refund?

[malice19]

Hi Guys

You might have read my other thread with the problems i have had with my new 6950 being faulty since receiving it.

Problems i have had since getting the card.
http://forums.hexus.net/graphics-car...esponding.html

As i have had it under 28days am i entitled to a full refund?
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/support.php#28days


Within 28 Days of Purchase Date

1. Direct Manufacturer Technical Support. Some manufacturers are happy to provide direct technical support and returns processing within 28 days of purchase. This is often the best solution for the customer with the highest standards of technical support, latest information and fastest returns processing. Please see the table below marked "Under 28 Day Support". Any support offered by manufacturers does not affect your statutory rights.
2. Overclockers UK Technical Support. We are happy to provide free technical support to all Overclockers UK customers who require help or advice regarding products purchased from Overclockers UK. To obtain Technical Support please call 0871 200 5053 (calls cost 10p per minute) and ensure you have your order number to hand. Alternatively please use our RMA WebNote system.
3. Under the Distance Selling Regulations (2000) you have the right to cancel the contract relating to your order at any time up to the end of 7 working days after the goods are delivered. To exercise your right of cancellation, you must give written notice to Overclockers UK by letter, fax or RMA WebNote giving details of the goods ordered and date received. Notification by phone is not acceptable. If you exercise your right of cancellation under the Distance Selling Regulations (2000) after the goods have been delivered to you, you will be responsible for returning the goods to Overclockers UK at your own cost. The Distance Selling Regulations (2000) places a duty on you to take reasonable care of the goods once you have exercised your right to cancel. Returned items must be packaged properly and shipped in a plain outer box. Please try to include all internal packaging, cables, manuals, drivers and protective bags, however small. Overclockers UK will refund you within 30 days for any sum that has been paid by you or debited from your credit or debit card for the goods. If after exercising your right under the Distance Selling Regulations (2000) you do not return the goods as required, Overclockers UK may charge you a sum not exceeding the direct costs of recovering the goods. When exercising your right to cancel under the Distance Selling Regulations (2000) please return goods to Overclockers UK (Esnet Ltd), 4 Axis, Millenium way, High Carr Business Park, Newcastle-under-lyme, ST5 7UF.
4. Exceptions to Distance Selling Regulations (2000) - You do not have the right to cancel the contract under the Distance Selling Act if you have collected goods or if the order is for computer software which has been unsealed, or if you are not a consumer i.e. a company, partnership, sole trader or any other commercial body or registered charity.
5. If returning goods to Overclockers UK for reasons other than your right to cancel under the Distance Selling Regulations (2000) further conditions apply. For further details please see "In all Cases Where Support and/or Returns Service is Provided by Overclockers UK" below.

I can't quite get my head around this...?

Cheers for your help.

[jim]

I'd be amazed if it didn't have a warranty that covered you. Besides, SoGA should protect you since it's less than 6 months old.

Have you contacted OCUK yet?

[malice19]

I'd be amazed if it didn't have a warranty that covered you. Besides, SoGA should protect you since it's less than 6 months old.

Have you contacted OCUK yet?

Cheers for the quick reply. No not yet, was about to as just tested the newest 11.a AMD driver out for the card but still not working so filling out a RMA request stating that i wanted a refund but just wanted to check that i am definitely entitled to one as its under 28days and not fit for purpose.


Problems i have had since getting the card.
http://forums.hexus.net/graphics-car...esponding.html

[jim]

As I said before, 28 days is irrelevant. SoGA says under 6 months OCUK would have to prove that it wasn't an inherent fault at purchase that caused the failure of the card (I'd be gobsmacked if they went via that route) so you should be fine.

And it's very rare that a product comes with no warranty at all, so there will probably be a warranty on it that gives you even more rights. In short - I wouldn't worry. Take your time if you want to.

[CaptainCrash]

As I'm reading it, OcUK are *not* offering an unconditional 28-day return period, they're just mentioning that *some* manufacturers may offer *some* services within that period, and they then go on to explain (quite concisely and accurately, it has to be said) your rights under the DSRs.

You still have all your statutory rights under the SoGA of course, but do note that there is *no* specified time limit for rejecting faulty goods, it's simply defined as "reasonable", which is dependent on the context and the nature of the goods involved. From reading around it seems as though 28 days is often accepted as a de facto "reasonable" period for rejecting faulty electrical goods, but please don't rely on this as being set in stone, and if you believe your goods to be faulty, then it's sensible to return them as soon as possible to avoid any later misunderstandings.

It's true what snootyjim says with regard to your rights for goods under 6 months old, but the snag here is that if you leave it too long you may not have the right to "reject" them within the meaning of the SoGA, which gives you the unconditional right to a refund or replacement at *your* discretion. OcUK may decide to repair or replace the goods rather than offer a refund, which is their entitlement but may not be your preference.

Finally, any warranty or guarantee which you may have, either with the supplier or the manufacturer, is in addition to your statutory rights and doesn't replace them. Exactly what you're entitled to depends on the wording of the warranty, but having offered it, the supplier or manufacturer is contractually bound to honour it.

[oolon]

How many days have passed since you received the item? Normally returning things under the DSR is the easiest way to go, you have 7 working days after the receipt of the time to state you wish to return it under the DSR, you will however need to pay the return costs of the item. If you claim it does not work overclockers could well send it to be repaired and that will take extra time and you will have a B grade item returned for the price of a new one.... DSR it pay the postage if you can.

[jim]

It's true what snootyjim says with regard to your rights for goods under 6 months old, but the snag here is that if you leave it too long you may not have the right to "reject" them within the meaning of the SoGA, which gives you the unconditional right to a refund or replacement at *your* discretion. OcUK may decide to repair or replace the goods rather than offer a refund, which is their entitlement but may not be your preference.

Rejecting is the DSR, which he's passed now as it's only 7 days and his thread was started on 1st January.

[Saracen]

....

I can't quite get my head around this...?

In my opinion .... quite possibly not.

Essentially, your right to a refund is :-

a) whatever the contract says it is, subject to ...
b) at a minimum, the protection provided by consumer legislation.

To put that another way, the supplier can give you extra protections, and some do, but they can't remove your basic protections under consumer law.

So, ask yourself .... "does anything in that quoted text give me a right to a refund, and if not, does consumer law?"

Some companies give a right to refund well in excess of that that they are obliged to. I see nothing in that section you quoted about 28 days that says OcUK are offering refunds for up to 28 days, and to be honest, I'd doubt there's any supplier in that sector that does, or could. It'd end up being hugely abused, and no doubt, hugely expensive to do.

So ... do you have a right to a refund under consumer protection laws?

Under the Distance Selling regs, usually and for most products you do, but only for 7 working days starting the day after you receive the goods. It can be longer than that, but relies on the seller not telling you the information the Regs require them to tell you, and as far as I know, OcUK doesn't fail to do that. So ... the DSR is irrelevant if you've passed the time limit.

What other laws? The Sale of Goods Act gives a right to reject goods and demand a refund if they do not conform to contract and you act fast enough. But how long that "fast enough" is is not defined. It's down to a court to decide what's "reasonable" for you to inspect the goods to determine they don't conform to contract. Only in rare cases will that be longer than 28 days, but whether it's as long as that depends on each individual set of circumstances. So, you probably don't have the right there.

If you lose that SoGA right to reject, then you still have a possibility, which again depends on goods not conforming to contract, but then, the supplier has a right to repair or replace first. If neither is possible, or to do so would be disproportionately expensive, then they may offer a refund, which may or may not be full. They can make a deduction to reflect any use you've had of the goods. If something would be expected to last 5 years and they failed after 2 years, you've had 2/5ths of the expected life, so expect about a 40% deduction from the refund.

Having had the goods less than 28 days, any such deduction would be minimal unless the product was such as to be expected to have a very short life. Theoretically, those same laws apply to a banana or a pot of whipped cream as they do to computer components, so the law is framed in a way to cover all sorts of possible circumstances, which is why so much is left to a court to rule on if there's a dispute.

So next, if you've lost the right to reject the goods because you didn't act fast enough, how do you decide if goods "conform to contract"? Well, do they meet any specific criteria either explicitly negotiated, or in advertising you relied on, or that is embedded in contracts by law, such as the Sale of Goods Act stipulations about fitness for purpose and satisfactory quality? If they do not, they do not comply with contract and the rights to repair, replacement or possibly refund are relevant.

If you've had lots of problems, then it might be that the goods aren't fit for purpose, or of satisfactory quality. Notice the "might" in that. They might be crappy, or they might have been damaged. Or .... you might have damaged them, or be doing something wrong, or it might be an incompatibility with something in your machine, be it software of hardware.

The question therefore becomes .... how do you prove it one way or the other. This is the 6 months limit snootyjim referred to.

For the first 6 months, if this question arises then the law specifies that it is presumed they do not comply, unless it can be shown otherwise. After 6 months, that reverses and the presumption is that they do comply unless the buyer can prove they do not. But this is complicated by the fact that "conform to contract" refers to the state of the goods when supplied.

Suppose the goods have been electrically shorted out, or simply broken in half. The presumption is that they arrived like that unless the seller can prove otherwise. But before anyone gets the bright idea of breaking things after 5 months and claiming they arrived like that, I'd point out that the supplier is pretty likely to refuse to refund for a broken board that you failed to notice was broken for 5 months, and it'll probably end up before a court if you want your money. The "proof" referred to is on "balance of probability", and it might well include engineer's independent reports, but it might well also include supplier's packaging and shipping procedures, and a court's assessment of the probability that you failed to notice it was broken in half for 5 months before complaining. It is, therefore, a broad statement of the position, but the courts aren't stupid and wont appreciate being taken for being stupid. People shouldn't expect to win obviously fraudulent claims.

So .... depending on the exact nature of the problems, and what's causing them, i.e. was it an inherent fault, something you did (static shock, perhaps), any hardware/software clashes, etc, and what can be proven by whom, you might get a full refund even after the 28 days, and it's a bit more likely within it, IF you are prepared to go to court over it, and depending on what both you and OcUK can come up with in terms of evidence.

There is, therefore, no categoric answer as to whether you're entitled to a refund or not, because only a court can determine that, and on the basis of the facts of your specific case.

I haven't read the nature of your specific problems, and it wouldn't help much if I did. All it would add would be my interpretation of the evidence you provided, and wouldn't reflect anything OcUK might bring to a court, and even if I knew everything they might have to say, it would merely be my opinion and a court might well see it differently.

This is precisely why the DSR is so powerful as a consumer right. It does not rely on such ambiguous phrases as "satisfactory" quality, or of proof of faults being "inherent" at time of delivery. it doesn't even require you to provide a reason why you want to cancel. It simply says that if the Regs apply (and there are exceptions where they don't) that the only things you have to do are :-

1) notify the supplier, within the prescribed time limits (usually 7 working days) that you want to cancel, and d it is a permanent form (letter, email, fax etc but not phone)

2) take "reasonable care" of the goods while you have them

3) return them at your cost, unless you have a contractual reason for cancelling (like faulty goods), when it becomes the supplier that pays to collect, or reimburse you if you pay to return them.

Other than that issue over the cost of returned goods, and some differences if there are extra, separate services, like gift-wrapping, the full refund is mandatory and must happen within 30 days. It is a far, far stronger and clearer piece of consumer protection, provided the consumer acts fast enough, because it doesn't last long.

Sorry for the length of that, but I hope it outlines the basic principles that apply to the situation you're in, and why the answer to your basic question is "definitely maybe".

As usual, the above is opinion not advice, and I'm not a lawyer.

[Saracen]

Rejecting is the DSR, which he's passed now as it's only 7 days and his thread was started on 1st January.

Nope, rejecting is what you do under the Sale of Goods Act if the goods fail to conform to contract and you reject before "acceptance". And that's legal acceptance of the goods, and not acceptance of delivery.

And there are several ways you can "accept" goods, under the SoGA. One is explicitly doing so, another is doing anything inconsistent with having not accepted them (like selling them again, or adapting or personalising them),and third is simply not acting within a reasonable time to reject them.

How long is "reasonable". It depends on circumstances. If you bought snow skis in August, it might be that you couldn't try them until winter and if they snapped in half on first use because of a flaw in construction, you might have an argument that that was the first chance you'd had to detect that flaw. if you bought something and were involved in a car crash on the way home and spent months in hospital, it'd be reasonable that months had passed before you had a chance to check if the goods complied with contract. On the other hand, how complex are the goods? How long does it take to check if a computer is fully working, and how long does it take to check if a ball-point pen is?

What you're doing under the DSR isn't so much rejecting goods as simply exercising a right to cancel the contract. It might well have nothing whatever to do with the goods. You just changed your mind. After you bought, your car insurance bill came in and was very high, or your credit card bill was a shock and you can't afford whatever you bought so you cancel. Or you were drunk at the time and now regret buying it. or it arrives and while is in perfect condition, you decide you don't like the colour. and so on. All those give you a DSR cancellation right but not a SoGA rejection right.

[malice19]

I am afraid that the item is outside of the 7 days under the Distance selling regulations to return an item back to us as unwated. We can only allow incoming returns within the first 7 days of receipt. After this time period we can only actually allow a return if the item is faulty. As this order is over 7 days old i can not authorise for a return as unwanted.

Regards,

[jim]

I thought you said it was faulty?

DSR was always going to be a no-go.

[malice19]

I thought you said it was faulty?

DSR was always going to be a no-go.

It is faulty as far as i can tell that's why I asked for a refund and not because i simply did not want it due to changing my mind, they are making out that they can only replace it for me?

[jim]

The email you pasted from OCUK says that they won't replace under DSR because it's outside the 7 day period (true) and that there's no need for them to accept an unwanted item (true). They also state that after the 7 days are up, they will only refund/replace a faulty item. It doesn't state there whether you will get a refund or replacement, but often within the first month or so you will be given the choice.

That's just a guess though, different stores have different policies regarding refunds/replacements. You will get one or the other though, assuming it's faulty.

Since yours is faulty, that's the category it falls into.

[Saracen]

The only thing worth mentioning (and it probably won't matter here) is that in that OcUK quote they say "7 days from receipt". To be accurate, it's 7 working days, i.e. excluding bank holidays and weekends. That will add at least 2 days to their 7 days. And it's not from receipt, as that 7 working days starts the day after receipt, which adds another day.

Oh, and for that matter, the quote says they can only accept inward returns within 7 days. That is not what the DSR says. It matters not when the goods are returned. What must be within the 7 working days limit is that you sent the cancellation. If you posted the letter, proof of posting within the 7 day limit means the DSR is effective, and if you emailed, the email being despatched (to an address as stipulated by the regs) within the time period is enough. It's not even when the cancellation arrives, much less the goods. It's when you sent it.

Of course, it may be that that was what they meant and the person that wrote that mail may just have worded it badly.

[adidan]

The DSR and SoGA are separate entities. The DSR you can send anything backsolong as you notify the retailer within 7 working days of your intent to do so. (EDIT: Actually there are some exceptions, media that you have unwrapped for example and, oddly enough, I think shoes are excluded )

If it is faulty SoGA says the retailer is legally obliged to refund you if the item is faulty, not of adequate standard, provide you with a replacement or so on. Many retailers either try and fob customers off onto manufacturers or deny this although they are the ones legally responsible.

From Whatconsumer regarding the SoGA:

When you buy something from a shop you are entering into a legally binding contract. Therefore they don’t have to give you a refund simply because you have changed your mind. Only if one of your statutory rights is breached (i.e. that the item is damaged, of poor quality or not fit for purpose) do they have to give you your money back.

If it's faulty and the DSR doesn't apply anymore then the retailer is legally required to offer you a refund.

[Saracen]

.....

If it's faulty and the DSR doesn't apply anymore then the retailer is legally required to offer you a refund.

Only if you act fast enough to be within a "reasonable" time, and if you have not in any other way "accepted" the goods. That may well be the case for malice19. I went through this is some detail in a post above, post #8.

After that reasonable time, which won't be long, and if you're a consumer you can request either a repair or replacement, which the seller can decline if either (or both) is either impossible or disproportionately expensive, after which you can seek a refund, to which the seller can make a deduction for the benefit you've had from the goods. Only if you've had no benefit could you insist on a full refund.

Alternatively, after that reasonable time, if the seller is intransigent, you can go to court and seek damages, which will probably amount to the cost of the repair/replacement, or to a refund but will again take account of any benefit you've had from the goods.

Bear in mind the SoGA (in England and Wales) gives you those rights for up to 6 years, but if you think the retailer is required to issue a full refund if something fails after, say, 5 years, you're sadly mistaken, and it certainly isn't what the SoGA says.