Windows or Mac?

[TheAnimus]

That isn't going to be a cause for Windows to die out, but it is an argument for corporations to keep a mix of operating systems in their computing network - reliance on one particular platform can (and has) caused severe disruption in the past and will again at some point.

This is a good point, i've worked at a bank which had linux terminals as seperate systems for just DR issues. Thing is no one really liked them, most probably because they where used to NT4, this and with the collapse of one of the counterparties ment that there where fresh out of software that could run on them.

The reason why most companies keep all the terminals the same is because the cost benefits are hudge, and the risks are very limited.

[aidanjt]

1. I can pay a yearly fee for an operating system that the average office worker can use straight away without expensive training for the vast majority of users.

Ubuntu, and it doesn't even cost a thing, unless you want to donate, or buy support contracts off Canonical, for whatever bizarre reason.

2. There is a large pool of engineers available with experience in troubleshooting desktop issues for £25,000pa or less (in the home counties) that actually have enough social skills to not annoy the users.

Or have a small pool of engineers who can run a corporate network and actually know what they're doing for around £50,000pa, would be a better idea, no?

3. The server operating systems are compatible the majority of software that most businesses need. Things like book keeping software, groupware etc that our users can intuitively use.

*tick* More collaboration software than you can shake a stick at. And several powerful book keeping packages too.

4. The server operating systems can easily be used for desktop imaging.

Since before the big bang.

5. There is a sizable pool of non fundamentalist nutter IT engineers available from local/regional support companies that can supply holiday cover.

The above group in answer 2 don't need much holiday time, and the rest of the team are competent enough to cope with a collogue being off for a few weeks.

6. Has a simple to setup centralised update management system that comes free with the server OS.

Out of the box.

7. Has an office suite that can open Office 2007 xlsx and docx files.

Neither are standardised documents formats, ODF is the standard format. Not that either are designed for sending to people. But if you insist, OpenOffice can import Office 2007 formats.

Like I said, linux has its place, but it's not running an office network. I don't care if it's technically better at anything, in reality it costs too much to use.

Only if you don't know what you're doing. See answer 2.

[TheAnimus]

aidanjt, have you actually ever seen a large company running linux?

Because my bull**** detector is ringing.

Desktop support people paid £50k.... are you fricken nuts? These people are front lines, whos job often involves saying "press caps lock, its on the left, its a strange shape.....". The time demand is most often users been fools.

Then add in the fact you just say users can work ubuntu. They fricken can't. It requires training, going from XP to Vista requires training, hell going between XP with themes to 2k like view requires training. Users are all to often fricken stupid.

[aidanjt]

You're complaining at my answers because your company keeps hiring people with an IQ of a rock?

Oh, and note I said "engineers", not 'tech peons'. This is the second time today you've purposely cherrypicked what I've said (wrongly) to make an argument against me.

[TheAnimus]

You're complaining at my answers because your company keeps hiring people with an IQ of a rock?

Oh, and note I said "engineers", not 'tech peons'. This is the second time today you've purposely cherrypicked what I've said (wrongly) to make an argument against me.

No your really not understanding.

At my company we've got desktop goons paid £25k, we've then got the guru's who are paid 4 times that in basic alone.

We only have 2 gurus for 4 sites, we have 5 desktop goons in london alone.

This is because desktop goons should be that with an IQ of a rock, because compared to the end users they are the first line. As i said spend most of their times dealing with caps lock confusions (which given that the OS puts up a warning bubble is an amazing achivement).

This is a company with 10bn+ under management (ie 2% fee of that to run all the companies non performance related costs) and ~250 employees. Its typical of a financial firm.

I would like to know which company is spending £50k per year on its desktop goons. Really i'd be tempted to retire there!

[directhex]

Remember, kids: Caps Lock keys under Loonicks are much more complicated than under Windows. Knowledge of text consoles may be required for operation.

[aidanjt]

Remember, kids: Caps Lock keys under Loonicks are much more complicated than under Windows. Knowledge of text consoles may be required for operation.

Interwebs sarcasm at it's finest.

[TheAnimus]

Remember, kids: Caps Lock keys under Loonicks are much more complicated than under Windows. Knowledge of text consoles may be required for operation.

They look different on the log on warning no?

Any change, be it to Vista or win7 or Ubuntu (hahaha, like that would ever happen) is costly.

[directhex]

They look different on the log on warning no?

There is indeed no windows logo next to the big text marked "Your caps lock key is ON"

Any change, be it to Vista or win7 or Ubuntu (hahaha, like that would ever happen) is costly.

True enough

[burrellhead]

windows vista here but dont like it but. only a bit till windows 7 comes out

[badass]

Ubuntu, and it doesn't even cost a thing, unless you want to donate, or buy support contracts off Canonical, for whatever bizarre reason.

No. Normal people cannot use Ubantu. "power users" stand a far better chance.
Linux based netbooks have 4 times the returns of Windows netbooks. That says it all.

Or have a small pool of engineers who can run a corporate network and actually know what they're doing for around £50,000pa, would be a better idea, no?

A small pool of engineers will be able to hold 4 different phone calls at once, all day every day? Or have you never worked on a helpdesk?

The above group in answer 2 don't need much holiday time, and the rest of the team are competent enough to cope with a collogue being off for a few weeks.

5 phone calls each at the same time?

Neither are standardised documents formats, ODF is the standard format. Not that either are designed for sending to people.

This is the thing Linux zealots don't get. That is irrelevant. A business that keeps getting documents from external parties in propietry Microsoft formats doesn't give a **** about Linux zealots whining about open formats and standards.

But if you insist, OpenOffice can import Office 2007 formats.

That's more like it.

Only if you don't know what you're doing. See answer 2.

No.

[Zadock]

I use Windows 7 RC on my desktop, and windows xp home pro on my Eee... I also occasionally use Ubuntu 9.04 NBR on my Eee from a flash drive, which is really quite polished now I have to say. Had everything working straight off a live usb with no problems.

@Agent: Don't Google and Lucient Technologies run linux full time? (Lucient I'm pretty sure do, my mate's step dad used to work for them). There are a fair few research facilities that run linux full time as well including the Large Hadron Collider folks, who have their own custom version.

[aidanjt]

@Agent: Don't Google and Lucient Technologies run linux full time? (Lucient I'm pretty sure do, my mate's step dad used to work for them). There are a fair few research facilities that run linux full time as well including the Large Hadron Collider folks, who have their own custom version.

Yes, as do many other very big (and thus, profitable) corporates. Including a not so insignificant proportion of the market trading sector. It also massively dominates the embedded device markets.

So, I think we can safely dismiss the "ZOMG LOONIX COSTS TOO MUCH TO RUN" and "ZOMG LOONIX IS TOO COMPLEX" arguments peddled out by the Microsoft marketing dept. That campaign was banned by the Advertising Standards Authority for a reason.

[aidanjt]

No. Normal people cannot use Ubantu. "power users" stand a far better chance.

My old man is not a computer wizz by any stretch of the imagination. When he was growing up the toilet was the field out the back, tissue paper was doc. leafs, lighting was an oil filled lantern, and their entertainment center was a huge radio, with a battery that had to be carried into the nearest town to get charged. So, with that in mind, when I say he can use Ubuntu, that should tell you one thing. If you can't figure out Ubuntu, then you're either a) in a coma, or b) clinically braindead.

Linux based netbooks have 4 times the returns of Windows netbooks. That says it all.

Another Microsoft strawman argument. The Linux 'distributions' bundled with most netbooks suck hard. They're cripple/jailware with limited functionality. You're comparing that, to a fully fledged OS. Furthermore, most of these have tiny/cheapass SSDs, compared to XP-based netbooks which usually come with a more reasonable performing HDDs. And I'm sure Microsoft cooked the 'return' numbers in their favour, also.

A small pool of engineers will be able to hold 4 different phone calls at once, all day every day? Or have you never worked on a helpdesk?

That small pool of engineers would spend more time tackling the reasons for the calls. They'd have most of the actual technical faults elimitated. And they're more likely to hold 'helpgroup' sessions to train out the common PEBKAC errors.

This is the thing Linux zealots don't get. That is irrelevant. A business that keeps getting documents from external parties in propietry Microsoft formats doesn't give a **** about Linux zealots whining about open formats and standards.

You're missing the point. If everyone keeps peddling documents in a non-document exchange format, then it'll always happen. As for standards not mattering, if the internet was run like document exchanges, every new router firmware would break the internet, different brand routers wouldn't talk to each other, neither would mail servers, web servers, etc, ad nausium.

Read this for more info, and perhaps use it to educate people who send you MSO/OOXML documents: http://en.nothingisreal.com/wiki/Ple...Word_documents

[dangel]

I like the idea we can all move to open formats for office word - at least in a perfect world that's possible. Reality is probably very different, certainly there's very little I can do about it in my company.

I will say one thing on the whole Window/linux arguement - I think Windows does do 'noddy user' rather well, and the built in help is really very good indeed (I dream of having documentation like that for our product). It's interesting to note too, that distros ape Windows a heck of a lot thesedays, whereas OSX really doesn't (although I guess 7's new taskbar..). I think linux has come on a long way in recent years but it's still (in my eyes) not really a 'big thing' on the desktop - certainly not in the sense that we were all told it would be 10 years ago. I've nothing against it mind (hey, i've got the unbuntu sticker on my monitor and everything!) - I just don't have any use for it at home or work (the former because licences cost me nothing and windows does more for my part. needs, the latter because there just isn't any pull from out customers for anything but Windows).

[TheAnimus]

Including a not so insignificant proportion of the market trading sector.

Name them. I used to work for a certain german institute which shall remain nameless. They have been withdrawing their linux terminals.

That small pool of engineers would spend more time tackling the reasons for the calls. They'd have most of the actual technical faults elimitated. And they're more likely to hold 'helpgroup' sessions to train out the common PEBKAC errors.

Where does this happen? The reason these technical faults are magically eliminated again shows you've no fricken idea. Have you ever sat foot inside a company, or had to have one of the projects your managing depend on an internal IT team? Please give some details so i can understand where your coming from.

Read this for more info, and perhaps use it to educate people who send you MSO/OOXML documents: http://en.nothingisreal.com/wiki/Ple...Word_documents

Yes because telling all your counterparties to change their working pratices is a GOOD idea.