Hand of Henry

[shaithis]

Grab a webcam from the stockroom first and set up a "scan friday fight night feed" on hexus

[Zhaoman]

Don't these paragraphs contradict each other? Just because cheating is becoming more common place in the game does not justify Henry's actions.

You can either fix the game or fix the players. I'd vote for fixing the players, they bloody earn enough!

I was saying Henry using his hand is as much instinctive as it is deliberate so you can't label him an out-and-out cheat but my point was if football was a 'cleaner' sport then Henry would've had no trouble in saying to the referee afterwards that it was indeed handball, and play would've continued normally. There is nothing wrong with instinctively sticking your hand out but it's the mentality that afterwards it's OK, even considered the 'right' thing to do, to keep it hush and get a sneaky win is what I'm getting at. But I guess it's not gonna change anytime soon...

[zinger5]

Thought it was pretty shameful from henry to be honest - but then as a Spurs fan I always knew he was a cheating so-and-so like all the rest of that lot at Arsenal

zinger5

[pollaxe]

Someone's also been busy with Mr Henry's Wikipedia entry (vvvvv NSFW) I see.

As someone who's not got a lot of time for football - nor can claim to understand it well, I generally prefer Rugby - this incident seems to sum-up much of my problem with the modern game. Namely, they're a bunch of overpaid handbag merchants with no sense of fair play. To a numpty like me it seems a replay is the fairest outcome of this. Mind you, I've been advocating that Diego Maradonna should've been shot for his hand of God behaviour for years.

[jim]

Someone's also been busy with Mr Henry's Wikipedia entry (vvvvv NSFW) I see.

As someone who's not got a lot of time for football - nor can claim to understand it well, I generally prefer Rugby - this incident seems to sum-up much of my problem with the modern game. Namely, they're a bunch of overpaid handbag merchants with no sense of fair play. To a numpty like me it seems a replay is the fairest outcome of this. Mind you, I've been advocating that Diego Maradonna should've been shot for his hand of God behaviour for years.

Rugby? I can't help thinking that the "bloodgate" nonsense was a far worse case of cheating than I've ever seen in football.

Maybe I'm talking about the wrong rugby, or have just completely missed the point, but I think all sports have their cheats.

[pollaxe]

^Human beings cheat, I never said Rugby had fewer cheats, just that I prefer it as a game on many levels. For me one of the main problems with football is footballers. I think the point about rugby being worse for cheating is debatable anyway, given the amount of diving and histrionics I've seen in the few international footy matches I've watched. Can't comment on league football as I never watch it.

Anyway, not trying to widdle on your cornflakes, just pointing out that as someone very much on the outside looking in that a replay seems the fairest outcome for this situation.

[DannyM]

No he was not a usual suspect, he was in fact one of my most admired footballers, so it is surprising. I wasn't arguing with that. But I was slightly peeved that you would march in to this thread, announce that you have seen a photo in a newspaper and declare it to be unintentional. Next time include something to show that you are extracting the urine (smilie maybe? ) because we are on the internets here and I was pretty convinced an absolute doofus had turned up and decided to stamp their ill-advised opinion around

Heres your smiley

x

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Rugby? I can't help thinking that the "bloodgate" nonsense was a far worse case of cheating than I've ever seen in football.

Maybe I'm talking about the wrong rugby, or have just completely missed the point, but I think all sports have their cheats.

well said.

[neonplanet40]

I was gutted to be honest. Nothin worse than seeing your team who played really well being put out of the world cup for that. Joke tbh.

[jim]

Anyway, not trying to widdle on your cornflakes, just pointing out that as someone very much on the outside looking in that a replay seems the fairest outcome for this situation.

Yeah, fair enough. The only issue with replays is that is opens the floodgates - virtually every match has a dodgy decision somewhere in it, and the idea of replaying matches as a result of refereeing mistakes sets a scary precedence.

[pollaxe]

^Do you think if it had been the other way around (France out and an Irish player had handballed it) that FIFA are more likely to have decided on a replay? (Not baiting, genuinely interested and I think that the money side of the games - football, Rugby, anything professional - may well be a very big factor in the discussion/nature of cheating and bad play in sport.)

I think there should be more reliance on technology when something like this happens - it would've been a lot clearer with a time-out and reference to video. I suppose that could spoil the flow of the game (which to be fair is probably better in football than a lot of other sports) but when critical things like this are in the balance it seems like a reasonable compromise.

Or maybe it's just the nature of the game and bad stuff happens.

[jim]

^Do you think if it had been the other way around (France out and an Irish player had handballed it) that FIFA are more likely to have decided on a replay? (Not baiting, genuinely interested and I think that the money side of the games - football, Rugby, anything professional - may well be a very big factor in the discussion/nature of cheating and bad play in sport.)

I think there should be more reliance on technology when something like this happens - it would've been a lot clearer with a time-out and reference to video. I suppose that could spoil the flow of the game (which to be fair is probably better in football than a lot of other sports) but when critical things like this are in the balance it seems like a reasonable compromise.

Or maybe it's just the nature of the game and bad stuff happens.

To be honest, I think even had it been the other way round there would have been no replay. However, I don't doubt for a second that 1) Blatter and Platini would have slammed Ireland 2) The referee would've been officially and loudly kicked out of the World Cup by FIFA, and 3) The Irish player would face serious consequences. I don't think it's a fair system, but I don't think it's that unfair. In addition to the issue of the big teams missing out, you've got to remember that the big footballing organisations are run by Frenchmen, which I can't help feeling would ultimately play a big part - they've shown themselves to be a touch biased on more than one occasion.

The ironic thing with this game is that the new FIFA system of 5 officials on the pitch (one behind each goal as well) would surely have arisen in the correct decision - no official behind the goal could've failed to notice that handball. And I think that's the right way to go as well - that way you should have roughly 270 degree vision around any incident, with linesman at the side and referee and goal-line official behind and in-front of them, and any "wrong" decisions should be pretty hard to judge even with the benefit of the video camera.

The only bit of technology that should unquestionably be in the game is a goal-line detector - it's such an easy thing to measure electronically (and hence instantly) I think it's stupid not to include it. Having said that, if there is a referee behind the goal then it would take a phenomenally bad decision to miss the ball crossing the line, so maybe it's not such a bad thing. Will it get implemented? I don't know, but it surely can't be a bad thing, when there are 200 cameras analysing every moment of the game after it's finished, to get an extra pair of eyes for each decision during the game.

[Andy3536]

Thought it was pretty shameful from henry to be honest - but then as a Spurs fan I always knew he was a cheating so-and-so like all the rest of that lot at Arsenal

zinger5

Well to prove you completly wrong, and to add another little fuel to this. In 1999 in a FA cup match against Sheffield Utd, recently signed Kanu set up a goal from throw in that should have been passed back to the keeper as the ball was kicked out for a player down injured.
The FA wouldn't have set up a replay but Wenger immediately offered to replay the game (something i've never herd of before?) and the FA agreed.
He's again come out this week and said it should be down to France to offer a replay, and this would make the most sence in the short term. It would put Fifa in such a position they would almost certainly have to agree. Getting France to make the offer though is something entirly different.

[neonplanet40]

Well to prove you completly wrong, and to add another little fuel to this. In 1999 in a FA cup match against Sheffield Utd, recently signed Kanu set up a goal from throw in that should have been passed back to the keeper as the ball was kicked out for a player down injured.
The FA wouldn't have set up a replay but Wenger immediately offered to replay the game (something i've never herd of before?) and the FA agreed.
He's again come out this week and said it should be down to France to offer a replay, and this would make the most sence in the short term. It would put Fifa in such a position they would almost certainly have to agree. Getting France to make the offer though is something entirly different.

It pointless thinking about it. France won't make the offer and they will be known as the team who cheated to get a place in the World Cup. Sad that teams can cheat this day in age to be honest. I know a big part of football is to be controversal at times. But a line needs to be drawn when a multi-million pound player resorts to cheating in order to win. Says a lot about where the game is heading.

[jim]

Well to prove you completly wrong, and to add another little fuel to this. In 1999 in a FA cup match against Sheffield Utd, recently signed Kanu set up a goal from throw in that should have been passed back to the keeper as the ball was kicked out for a player down injured.
The FA wouldn't have set up a replay but Wenger immediately offered to replay the game (something i've never herd of before?) and the FA agreed.
He's again come out this week and said it should be down to France to offer a replay, and this would make the most sence in the short term. It would put Fifa in such a position they would almost certainly have to agree. Getting France to make the offer though is something entirly different.

That's a bit different though, because Arsenal technically did nothing wrong - the referee was not involved in the decision at all, and Arsenal offered a replay on the basis of good sportsmanship.

In this instance, the replay would effectively be overruling the referee. I admit that a replay could easily still go ahead, but nonetheless the circumstances aren't quite the same.

[cat123]

The sooner FIFA bring technology into football the better, there is so much cheating going on now that it is the norm, what ever happened to fair play?