GTI ----> R ... Evolution

[3Dfx]

the Peugot 206 done the quater of a mile just under two secconds quicker than the Golf GTI

The Peugeot is French... smaller, lighter and worse built (sorry to keep harping on about build quality.. but.. come on... German Vs French... hands down Germans win)... and therefore the car is heavier

[streetster]

You are 100% allowed to have your opinion, but you should base it on fact, rather than bollocks which you base it on.

i like that quote a lot similar to 'you can have your own opinion aslong as its the right one' anyway this thread is digressing (sp?) further and further from the beginning of the thread ah well.

mark

[3Dfx]

I dont see why an opinion must be based on fact... cos then alot of opinions would be the same cos the fact cant change and therefore it wouldnt technically be an opinion.

... see what I mean?

anywayz back on topic

[5lab]

actually its a known fact that german cars are getting built WORSE these days than they used to. vw got part of its rep from its bigger german brothers (bimmer, audi, merc) who made expensive cars that lasted, because they were over-engineered. more recently jap cars have been coming into the market priced lower for the same sorta spec (see lexus etc) and as a result the big germans have had to cut their manufacturing costs. this means the cars are no longer over-engineered, and are in fact these days typically less reliable than the competition (including the scandinavians, the japs and the italians... ok i was lying about the italians.. ). however people still believe they are more reliable because thats the reputation they have. same reason people believe skodas are unreliable. i mean 10 years ago you'd have been laughed at if someone suggested that most of the bits off a cirtain audi were the exact same bits as a skoda...

so to my point - the german cars dont really have any extra reliability over the french cars. alfa still has a bad rep, and as far as i know this is still kinda deserved, but the french cars are no less reliable than the germans.

and as for the comment 'its a lighter car' - well isnt that half the point of building a fast car? i mean ferraris weigh buggerall - if they weighed the same as a landy then they'd be undeniably slow and worse handleing. the pugs a faster, cheaper car - and for that reason more people will probably buy it. sure its a bit smaller - but your average golf gti owner *probably* doesnt have 4 people in his car that often, so wont really mind so much. the other thing about the pug is that its NOT a company car favourite, unlike the golf, and as a result ISNT generally driven by such nobs, unlike the golf/bimmers

[Shad]

Nice post 5lab

You're right about Alfa's rep; the dealer network is s***, but there are a few main dealers and several specialists that provide first class service. If only they all did

But anyway, build quality now is very good. Read any recent review of an Italian car and 9 times out of 10 they're impressed with the quality.

I can't even remember what this topic was about now

[3Dfx]

i mean ferraris weigh buggerall

The 355 *im pretty sure* weights 1500kg approx ... heavier than a 4Motion Golf and thats a 4wd car!!

[Shad]

...but it has a few more ponies under the hood, to say the least

[3Dfx]

but it has a few more ponies under the hood

just 1 or 2.

heh heh

[spazman]

1450 kg For Ferrari 355 380BHP

1380 kg for VW golf R32 241BHP

[Angus]

Ferrari 355 = 262BHP/tonne
Golf R32 = 175BHP/tonne
My MG weighs 1230 has 101BHP
= 82BHP/tonne (but it is deisel - very torquey)

Oh well, roll on the next car

[3Dfx]

My MG weighs 1230 has 101BHP

ZR105 yes?

then I dont care WHAT MG say. the PETROL 105 cannot beat a Golf 2.0 GTI in a race!!

the 2.0GTI is only about 1260kg ... to be honest I agree with Whatcar...

Whatcar said in an older mag

MG have dressed up the Rover 25 but unfortunately except for the 160VVC the rest are all show and NO GO.

I think MG are a bit "optimistic" in their quotes... similar to Citroen.

Citroen state this

VTS = 0-60 - 7.8secs

the peugeot 106 GTI is the SAME CAR and peugeot quote 8.3secs

A magazine asked Peugeot about this and they said

"We're more realistic with our quotes"

... I think Citroen have since chanced their quoted times... tho maybe not...

[Angus]

MG can't be too optimistic in their quotes, otherwise it's a trade description issue.

If VW test the car with a tonne of bricks in the boot, then lets be frank - it's their problem.

Manufacturers Data from Whatcar:

MG 105 0-60 is 10 seconds
Golf GTI 2.0 0-60 is 10.5

The issue is not whether the MG would beat the Golf, more an astonishment that the MG comes anywhere near the performance of a vehicle that has 600 extra cc's under the bonnet.

If you read the post carefully (don't take this as an insult - I miss-read them all the time) you'll notice I was referring to the ZR 2.0TD, the 105 has 103BHP.

I'm not sure which citroen you're on about but I'd suggest that although the citroen and the 106 may be mechanically the same, they are likely to have different body shells, things such as the weights are unlikely to be exactly the same, co-efficient of drag is also likely to be different

Rover 25 1.4 105PS Drag coefficient Cd/Cda 0.34/0.68
MG ZR 105 Drag coefficient Cd/CdA 0.39/0.79

Figures: MG-Rover.org

These figures show that although the MG and Rover are virtually identical (they both have exactly the same engine, bodyshell etc.) they still have different drag co-efficients - quite a major factor when you're trying to push through air at 60mph.

[3Dfx]

ok, heres sum figures for ya. (yes i realised u meant the TD version)

check the whatcar magazine.. Golf GTI 2.0 = 9.0secs to 60

Id scan the mag in... but I cant be assed cos its 1:11am

Parkers states 10.2secs

... bare in mind the Golf does offer more equipment... :-)

Id still put my hard earned... ok my earned money on the Golf in a race.

no doubt about it. Ive driven both cars and I doubt the ZR105 does it in 10secs...

[DR]

Yes but look at the big picture, the insurance cost difference, oh and the car difference.


Is there any car you have NOT driven? someone of 19 you seem to have driven a hell of a lot

[Angus]

Oh well at least there's some consolation in the fact you have to earn your money

[3Dfx]

Is there any car you have NOT driven? someone of 19 you seem to have driven a hell of a lot

I enjoy testing cars...

Ive tested

Golf GTI 180bhp
Golf 4Motion
Golf R32
Lupo GTI === MUCHO FUN!
Polo GTI
Focus 1.8Zetec
MG ZR105
MG ZR120
Golf GTI 16v
Astra 2.0GSI
Mini One
Citroen AX GT
Golf 1.4 Match
MG Metro - WOOOOO

and a few more... heh heh

there's some consolation in the fact you have to earn your money

Yep, I dont get free hand outs... I work long and pay hard... urrgghhh....