Case Book: TRack down the problem

[Howard]

Ahhh... VTEC bust?

That'd be a first though

[Zak33]

Compression is fine. A cylinder test is done and all cylinders are tight in their bores.

Dont forget guys....this occured quite fast after the service.

There is a hint back there, somewhere ..a glimmer of a hint.

[Zak33]

Ahhh... VTEC bust?

That'd be a first though

not bust....not yet..just not right.

[Howard]

Is the variable valve timing system working 100%?

Maybe it is something to do with that as the "VTEC" point is about 5.5k isn't it?

[Zak33]

I'll give you a hint.

Oil change.

[Howard]

Did they put enough in?

[TeePee]

Did they change the oil filter?

Is it now causing a restriction, making the oil pump work harder?

Has the guy moved to a higher density altitude?

[Zak33]

Did they change the oil filter?

Is it now causing a restriction, making the oil pump work harder?

The suggestion is made to take the oil filter off, and change it for a proper Honda version.

BINGO....the car is like new

But it's a hard question....WHY did it get worse over the first few days...?

The answer:

OIL UNDER PRESSURE, IS STRONG. It is what makes hydraulic power possible, in cranes and braking systems.

And when the bloke first took his car above about 5000 rpm, the inside of the filter CAVED IN.

I kid you not...the metal mesh inside, designed to support the filter element COLLAPSED and blocked the oil route.

Imagine the pressure at a potential 9000 rpm? Thats why it never made it up there.

MORAL: ALWAYS FIT REAL OIL FILTERS....ALWAYS. Never buy one, no matter who they THINK they are, from another company, unless you CUT ONE IN HALF and check the guage of steel, the size of the holes, and the sheer AMOUNT of holes for the oil to get through.

The oil filter used listed about 50 makes of cars that it would "fit" and one of them is a Kamatsu digger! 2000 rpm job.

How on EARTH is that gonna survice VTEC TYPE R revs?

Well done TeePee.....you got it

[Shad]

Actually Zak I think you'll find that the garage failed to replace the VTEC fluid and scat-rods, a common problem with Honda VTEC units when being serviced.

[Zak33]

Actually Zak I think you'll find that the garage failed to replace the VTEC fluid and scat-rods, a common problem with Honda VTEC units when being serviced.

Good thought, but nope...I saw the filter, cut through. It was crushed inside. The Honda technician knew what it was straight away Cheap filters crumbling or crumpling up and blocking the flow

[menthel]

And I was just about to ask what colour it was. I would have worked it out from there!

[SilentDeath]

Interesting. Mine has a crappy 20 year old filter made by a company called cooper. I know its 20 years old, becuase of the beige colour.. Im guessing before the days of mass production, where everything was painted in a shed by an old beared man. He discovered biege by mixing white paint with wee.
....A new, GENUINE saab filter, the updated black type, with the improved smaller mesh, costs only £2.49 from a saab online store.... yet I cant do my bloody oil change still.


Anyway I spent a little while thinking about this, before you replyed.. I was thinking far too much oil = pressure in sump/block, and dead piston rings. I dont think anything else would cause those exact symptoms.

I would think though.. oil starvation, and a blocked filter.. would make some niose?


So the engine now has bits of oil filter floating around inside? that could be quite nasty if it needs to be cleaned out. Not sure what oil filters are made of..

[Howard]

Anyway I spent a little while thinking about this, before you replyed.. I was thinking far too much oil = pressure in sump/block, and dead piston rings. I dont think anything else would cause those exact symptoms.

Lack of oil would; VTEC won't work when the oil level's too low

[[GSV]Trig]

Damnit wish I had seen this thread earlier as I'd of got it



Filter from a Vectra V6

[Zak33]

oh no....it was worse than that. Much worse.

A Civic oil filter has 6 holes round the base to let the oil in, and the cheap one had 5.

The Civic filter had a round metal coloum up its centre with loads and loads of holes in it, to support the filter element and the steel used is really high grade.

The cheap one was made of what looked like aluminium foil and had 1/3 the holes in it.

The Civic has a special latex flange inside, at the base, all around that rested on the 6 holes when the engine was off, and blocked them, stopping the oil from flowing backwards, the cheapo one didn't. It had a solid, un flexible rubber gromet thast just didn't bend out of the way.

And then, when the bloke first hit high revs...the centre column of "steel" that was thin and fragile, just caved in. It totaly blocked the centre hole that lets the oil back out.

It was HORRIBLE!

[Zak33]

OK....please be aware this is NOT the oil filter in question, but it DOES show the difference in oil holes from the outter to the inner. Look at the difference.

Plus the quantity of paper element and the way it folds.


Now, I'm not saying one of these is ideal in all manners, cos it aint, but the sheer volume of oil passed from outter part of filter to the cleaned centre core is restricted by the amount and quality of the holes. The WAY they are cut makes a difference. The SPACING. And so does the quality of the steel that the tube is made from. If its cheap metal, less holes can be used to keep it striong.


Inagine that thing collapsing inward, under immense oil pressure, and bocking the centre oil outlet!