AMD - Piledriver chitchat

[watercooled]

In regards to power consumption, I think this has been mentioned before, but linking in with what CAT said about binning, I've seen a load of places comparing the 750Ti to competitive cards based on TDP, which is nonsense. Of course the power consumption is decent, but the difference is nowhere near as big as the TDPs would suggest.

It's no different for CPUs. I'm currently running a few benchmarks on a Sandy Bridge Celeron, a '65W TDP' part. It never draws more than about 20-25W when idle power use is subtracted...

'Professional' reviewers should know better that to reference TDPs in any sort of comparison.

[mikeo01]

I thought TDP was merely a thermal boundary, how much the chip will produce in terms of heat. I didn't think it was directly related to power consumption?

Just a quick, how is power consumption actually measured? If two chips are rated at 65TDP for instant how do you calculate the given power consumption of both parts?

[watercooled]

Power basically = heat.

TDPs are just a rough guide for system integrators so they know what sort of power supply to include, and how much heat they need to get rid of. Depending on the CPU itself and what sort of load it's under, it may consume significantly more or less than the TDP.

A ton of chips fall into the 65W category for instance, it doesn't mean they're all going to use exactly the same amount of power/produce the same amount of heat.

[Jimbo75]

Spent last night reading through that CAT-THE-FIFTH (thanks for the link), that's pretty shocking i didn't realise quite how biased some of these places were (although some places can be ofc). I tried to read a fair few forums, toms, ocuk etc... i found even toms can be a bit biased but that moderating is insane, and completely unfair. I feel sorry/bad for people talking about AMD on anandtech now :s Shocking.

Thank the lords i was guided here, to this great forum!

Did you have problems with a certain mousemonkey moderator at toms by any chance? The stuff he gets away with is just as bad as what goes on at Anandtech.

[watercooled]

TBH from the threads I've read, Xtremesystems seems fairly neutral + mature, but I'm not a frequent visitor so can't be certain OFC.

There aren't many though, unfortunately.

[The Hand]

At least Eurogamer.net here are prepared to consider AMD chips (FX6300) for a sub-£500 gaming system to compete with a PS4.

[myotherjob]

Spent last night reading through that CAT-THE-FIFTH (thanks for the link), that's pretty shocking i didn't realise quite how biased some of these places were (although some places can be ofc). I tried to read a fair few forums, toms, ocuk etc... i found even toms can be a bit biased but that moderating is insane, and completely unfair. I feel sorry/bad for people talking about AMD on anandtech now :s Shocking.

Thank the lords i was guided here, to this great forum!

The mods at Anandtech cannot be both, anti-AMD and anti-NVidia.

The video mods at Alien Babel Tech claim that the Anandtech mods are all pro-AMD and anti-NVidia, also having AMD shills on their video forums.

Read pages 168 on forward to 173.
alienbabeltech(dot)com/abt/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=24247&start=1670
Two pro NVIdia fanboys were removed from the site and the ruckus starts with the "pro AMD mods" at Anandtech.

This is the reason you cannot believe everything that is written on the internet.

[Jimbo75]

The mods at Anandtech cannot be both, anti-AMD and anti-NVidia.

The video mods at Alien Babel Tech claim that the Anandtech mods are all pro-AMD and anti-NVidia, also having AMD shills on their video forums.

Read pages 169 on forward.
alienbabeltech(dot)com/abt/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=24247&start=1670
Two pro NVIdia fanboys were removed from the site and the ruckus starts with the "pro AMD mods" at Anandtech.

This is the reason you cannot believe everything that is written on the internet.

Got any evidence of the Nvidia posters getting bans for the same stuff as the AMD posters?

Those Nvidia guys have been trolling the forum for months with the same crap about "AMD's stealth viral marketing". That's not why they got banned though - they got banned for attacking the moderators. That's the ONLY way they would get banned.

The difference with the AMD guys is they are getting banned for stuff the Nvidia and Intel guys are getting away with.

Also, at least one of the posters (keysplayr) in that thread used to be an Anandtech moderator while in Nvidia's Focus Group. What does that tell you about them?

[watercooled]

I'm not a member of the AAT forums, but I occasionally stumble on threads vis search engines etc. All I ever see is any remotely positive comment about AMD being met by plain childish trolling by the usual fanboys. Heck, even a respected chip architect is treated like an idiot when he disagrees with the trolls.

TBH pretty much any thread containing anything about Intel/Nvidia/ARM/AMD seems to end up with trolls playing down everyone else and glorifying Intel/Nvidia as usual. Some of it is plain delusional. For example a while ago I remember giggling to myself reading a few people saying how they considered any phone but a Medfield-powered one slow and completely unusable.

I personally make an effort to avoid them for anything that could be even tangentially related to this sort of topic for that precise reason. TBH (and although I've not seen evidence of it myself) AMD fanboys could only go to somewhat neutralise the mess that is AAT forums anyway.

And the guy who seems to be doing a lot of the complaining in that thread you linked, kinda has a purchase-justifying, cherry-picked benchmark as his sig. xD Put it this way; it's not the first thing I'd expect from a neutral enthusiast...

[myotherjob]

Got any evidence of the Nvidia posters getting bans for the same stuff as the AMD posters?

Those Nvidia guys have been trolling the forum for months with the same crap about "AMD's stealth viral marketing". That's not why they got banned though - they got banned for attacking the moderators. That's the ONLY way they would get banned.

The difference with the AMD guys is they are getting banned for stuff the Nvidia and Intel guys are getting away with.

Also, at least 2 of the people (keysplayr and apoppin) in that thread used to be Anandtech moderators while in Nvidia's Focus Group. What does that tell you about them?

That's not why they were banned. (attacking moderators).

Lonbjerg was banned for accumulated infractions over time.

Balla for trolling with his "AMD affiliation" in his sig. He served a vacation and all he had to do was apologize for that stunt and he refused and said to just permaban him.

Read that thread, he's telling the story himself.

[Jimbo75]

That's not why they were banned. (attacking moderators).

Lonbjerg was banned for accumulated infractions over time.

Balla for trolling with his "AMD affiliation" in his sig. He served a vacation and all he had to do was apologize for that stunt and he refused and said to just permaban him.

Read that thread, he's telling the story himself.

They are defying the mods though, which to the mods is just as bad if not worse. This whole "AMD stealth marketing" thing blows up constantly, with the same people involved - and it always ends up the same.

Let me show you what usually happens though.

One of the posters in that thread (OCGUY) started this thread over at Anandtech - http://forums.anandtech.com/showthre...423&highlight=

What he did was he linked to the TPU article then put his own "spin" on it about it being part of AMD's advocacy program. I told him that it was completely off for him to attempt to link this Llano lawsuit to his imaginary AMD stealth marketing tricks. (ViRGE removed all of that when he "moderated" the thread)

I (SiliconWars) ended up with a 2 week ban for this post - http://www.flickr.com/photos/115418258@N06/12600504095/

I was the only person in the entire thread to get banned.

Remember at that stage I was simply copying people who had got away with the same words, so when I called out ams on his "irrelevant thread crap" I was doing it in the knowledge that I was guaranteed to get banned even though the Intel guys didn't even get warnings for the same stuff ie - http://www.flickr.com/photos/115418258@N06/12600927524/

No infraction, warning or anything for erunion, I get banned for 2 weeks for the same words. That's what my point is - the AMD guys get treated worse for the same things.

This is ViRGE telling them to stop in the same thread, and they didn't do it - http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost...7&postcount=18

That brings me back to the point - they were all told many times to drop this nonsense AMD stealth marketing crap but they didn't do it. This is what the bans are for - for defying the mods after being told time and again to stop with it.

Ljonberg WAS banned for attacking the mods and says so himself in that thread -

http://alienbabeltech.com/abt/viewto...103189#p103189

I made a post in moderator disccusion on A(md)TF...pointing the finger at some mods for their AMD affiliations...guess who got banned lol

It was worth it though.

Besides it looks like I was right about Mantle...and I wouldn't have lasted long after it went public...I would be the gravel in the vaseline for AMD PR...by bebunking their paid PR shills "looney" claims^^

Oh as for Balla? I just looked further in the thread and found this -



Attacking the mods.

See the thing is - this is all happening now because the Nvidia guys got away with murder for so long they got so bold they actually believed they would get away with defying the mods. The only thing the mods hate more than AMD fanboys is posters who think they are above them.

So that's why these guys got bans - for attacks and defying the moderators time and again. Me? I got 10 days for saying "Yawn" and just got 30 days for the EXACT same words some Intel fanboy used against me without any penalty.

There's your difference.

That's not why they were banned. (attacking moderators).

Lonbjerg was banned for accumulated infractions over time.

Balla for trolling with his "AMD affiliation" in his sig. He served a vacation and all he had to do was apologize for that stunt and he refused and said to just permaban him.

Read that thread, he's telling the story himself.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Nvm.

[cheesyboy]

In regards to power consumption, I think this has been mentioned before, but linking in with what CAT said about binning, I've seen a load of places comparing the 750Ti to competitive cards based on TDP, which is nonsense. Of course the power consumption is decent, but the difference is nowhere near as big as the TDPs would suggest.

Well, it's actually reasonably close to being so (as big as TDP);


R7 265 is perhaps overrated on TDP but, otherwise, the margins are about as you would expect.

Similarly here;


750Ti TDP = 60
7790 = 85
260x = 110
265 = 150 (7850 is only 130!)
270x = 180

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Emm??

The HD7850/R7 265 are being called 150W TDP cards which is a total lie,and the GTX750TI a 60W TDP card. Moreover,the Hexus power draw is at the wall.

Look at the TH review - there is NO HD7850/R7 265 power draw figures.

However,the R7 270X and HD7870 are around 140W and the R9 270 is even lower.







According to TPU figures the Palit card matches an R7 265 in performance.

[cheesyboy]

For whatever reason, mid range cards are always overrated on TDP specs (Nvidia do the sameas AMD on this count, if you check the official TDPs against those results).

I'm not sure how relevant nitpicking it all is, though. However it's spun, 750Ti is pretty unique in its performance/watt profile. And that's why it's quite an exciting bit of kit.

I'd been eyeing up a 260x to replace my ageing GTS250, but I'm finding it difficult to look past the 750Ti since it appeared. Won't be buying for a few months, in any case, so something more interesting may come along.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

So you buy a slower card which needs to be replaced quicker for around the same price.

Who cares about the R7 260X when HD7850,R7 265,R9 270 and GTX660 cards have been available for between £90 to £130 for months now.

I have a SB based Xeon E3 1220,H67 mini-ITX motherboard,8GB of DDR3,an SSD,two HDDs,an AIO water cooler running off an XFX PRO 450W.

I see between 135W to 195W at the wall when gaming.

I have been using mini-ITX systems since 2005.

You can worry all you want about power consumption but it is pointless,when everything else in your home is more important.

Lets do some maths then.

Lets look at the difference between a GTX660(which is around the same as the R9 270) and the R9 270X.

Lets say 50W and 75W looking at the Hexus review.

Usage scenario= 20 hours a week gaming
11 months used continuously.
1 month off for holidays and the like.
Cost per KWH =16P to 20P.

So on the low end thats £7.70 a year. On the high end thats £14.40 a year.



The R9 270X is 32% faster. The GTX660 is 24% faster.

The GTX750TI is a slower card,which will need to be replaced quicker. Hence you will spend more in hardware over time,even if the GTX750TI is cheaper to run.







In ARMA3 and BF4 the R9 270/R9 270X is around 38% to 45% faster.

The card is already struggling with some major AAA FPS titles. Its not a good sign for a desktop card.

The R7 260X is overpriced for what it is,and sadly the GTX750TI is overpriced too.

It really needs to be closer to £80 to £90 for base models delivered.

Its the same with the HD7750 when it was launched a few years ago. It was competitive with the HD5770 but I thought it was overpriced at £80 to £90,due to the competition from older cards. Pretty much the same view I had for the HD7770 too.

AMD and Nvidia seem to charge a premium for their bus powered card,which reduces their value prepostion quite a bit IMHO.