Page 19 of 109 FirstFirst ... 9161718192021222939495969 ... LastLast
Results 289 to 304 of 1736

Thread: AMD - Zen chitchat

  1. #289
    AKA Chrispynutt Gunbuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Fife
    Posts
    1,627
    Thanks
    69
    Thanked
    68 times in 56 posts
    • Gunbuster's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Aorus AX370 Gaming K7
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 7 1700x + Scythe Kotetsu MK I
      • Memory:
      • 32GB: 4x 8GB HyperX Fury 2400mhz CL15 DDR4
      • Storage:
      • 2x Sandisk Ultra II 960GB, 1x Crucial MX100 512GB SSD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • MSI Gaming GTX970
      • PSU:
      • EVGA Supernova G2 750w
      • Case:
      • Cougar Panzer S
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Home Premium
      • Monitor(s):
      • DGM IPS-2701WPH 27" 1440p IPS Monitor
      • Internet:
      • Aquiss Fibre

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    How physically big is Ryzen? I heard it has over 2000 pins, if X399 has 4000+ is that EATX only territory?

  2. #290
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    15,080
    Thanks
    1,208
    Thanked
    2,250 times in 1,851 posts
    • scaryjim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Dell Inspiron
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 8250U
      • Memory:
      • 1x 8GB DDR4 2400
      • Storage:
      • 128GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon R5 230
      • PSU:
      • Battery/Dell brick
      • Case:
      • Dell Inspiron 5570
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 15" 1080p laptop panel

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    AM4 is only 1331 contacts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM4

    A 2 die MCM wouldn't necessarily need twice that many contacts, either - it all depends on exactly how much they decide to plumb off it. I'd imagine they'd go for 4 memory channels, but they might decide to enable less of the SoC's built in IO, particularly since it's unlikely that workstation chips would be used without a chipset.

    Remember that the package size - and particularly the number of contacts - doesn't really determine the board size - there are mITX boards for Intel's 2000+ contact HEDT platform. As long as the desired physical components can be fitted into the motherboard footprint that's the only thing that really matters.

    One thing in AMD's favour with MCM is that, AFAIK, the Ryzen die is distinctly rectangular, while the AM4 socket packaging is basically square. If that's right, they could probably fit 2 dies into an area no bigger than the existing AM4 socket. Now they'll want more contacts, so I'm sure the X399 socket will be larger than AM4, but they've got plenty of room to play with...

  3. #291
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    10,234
    Thanks
    520
    Thanked
    1,059 times in 903 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 3700X
      • Memory:
      • 16GB 3200MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Linux, 1TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 30 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Samsung 2343BW 2048x1152
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb/20Mb VDSL

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    A lot of the pins on a modern socket are power and ground. You actually don't need that many pins to drive memory, but 90W at 1V means 90A which is the sort of current you get in an arc welder.

    When I were a lad, a z80 had a +5V pin and a ground pin. OK, the 8080 also had +12V and -5V giving that a total of 4 pins out of the 40 pin package but then Intel have always been odd (the nutters used dram for the CPU registers apparently). Anyway, these coloured pins show you the voltage pins on AM3, I presume AM4 will be no different:


  4. #292
    Oh Crumbs.... Biscuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N. Yorkshire
    Posts
    11,192
    Thanks
    1,392
    Thanked
    1,091 times in 833 posts
    • Biscuit's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450M Mortar
      • CPU:
      • AMD 2700X (Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3)
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Patriot Viper 2 @ 3466MHz
      • Storage:
      • 500GB WD Black
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 290X Vapor-X
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Focus Gold 750W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-V359
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity 80/20

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    I was having a look around today and noticed that the motherboard selection is still rather poor for AM4. Still no ITX boards and the mATX leave a lot to be desired.

  5. #293
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    1,076
    Thanks
    73
    Thanked
    133 times in 125 posts
    • kompukare's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77-V LX
      • CPU:
      • Intel i5-3570K
      • Memory:
      • 2 x 8GB Crucial Ballistix Elite PC3-14900
      • Storage:
      • Crucial MX200 | Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD | WDC 1TB Green | Samsung 1Tb Spinpoint
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 290 VaporX 7950
      • PSU:
      • Antec 650 Gold TruePower (Seasonic) or Seasonic SII-330
      • Case:
      • Aerocool DS 200 (silenced, 53.6 litres)l)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10-64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x Dell P2414H

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
    I was having a look around today and noticed that the motherboard selection is still rather poor for AM4. Still no ITX boards and the mATX leave a lot to be desired.
    Well the Biostar ITX one is now listed on skinflint.co.uk but only when search all countries is checked as the only stockists are Mindfactory.de and caseking.de and while they list it, it has an EAT of 10th and 19th of May respectively. £120 is a bit expensive IMO though even if it uses the X370 chipset.
    Biostar are also the only vendor who do a mATX with X370 although I am unsure how useful that is.
    But aside from all the others being B350, what feature are you missing from the mATX boards?
    My biggest concern is that aside from the overpriced X370 flagship boards, most other boards seems to suffer from BIOS update neglect which is not good for a new platform where BIOS update are very important for good DDR4 support.

  6. #294
    Bows out! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Hopefully somewhere less backstabby
    Posts
    28,789
    Thanks
    3,203
    Thanked
    4,456 times in 3,442 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Looks like the major new AGESA update will be out soon:

    https://www.techpowerup.com/233106/a...memory-support

    Hopefully better DDR4 compatibility soon!!

    Edit!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
    I was having a look around today and noticed that the motherboard selection is still rather poor for AM4. Still no ITX boards and the mATX leave a lot to be desired.
    The first review I have seen of the Biostar mini-ITX motherboard:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k5Q9UpIPlU



    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  7. #295
    Oh Crumbs.... Biscuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N. Yorkshire
    Posts
    11,192
    Thanks
    1,392
    Thanked
    1,091 times in 833 posts
    • Biscuit's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450M Mortar
      • CPU:
      • AMD 2700X (Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3)
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Patriot Viper 2 @ 3466MHz
      • Storage:
      • 500GB WD Black
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 290X Vapor-X
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Focus Gold 750W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-V359
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity 80/20

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Well the Biostar ITX one is now listed on skinflint.co.uk but only when search all countries is checked as the only stockists are Mindfactory.de and caseking.de and while they list it, it has an EAT of 10th and 19th of May respectively. £120 is a bit expensive IMO though even if it uses the X370 chipset.
    Biostar are also the only vendor who do a mATX with X370 although I am unsure how useful that is.
    But aside from all the others being B350, what feature are you missing from the mATX boards?
    My biggest concern is that aside from the overpriced X370 flagship boards, most other boards seems to suffer from BIOS update neglect which is not good for a new platform where BIOS update are very important for good DDR4 support.
    A LAN connector that isn't realtek.

    None starter for me.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

  8. #296
    Bows out! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Hopefully somewhere less backstabby
    Posts
    28,789
    Thanks
    3,203
    Thanked
    4,456 times in 3,442 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
    A LAN connector that isn't realtek.

    None starter for me.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    Realtek RTL8118AS - 10/100/1000 Controller
    ????


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  9. #297
    Oh Crumbs.... Biscuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N. Yorkshire
    Posts
    11,192
    Thanks
    1,392
    Thanked
    1,091 times in 833 posts
    • Biscuit's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450M Mortar
      • CPU:
      • AMD 2700X (Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3)
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Patriot Viper 2 @ 3466MHz
      • Storage:
      • 500GB WD Black
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 290X Vapor-X
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Focus Gold 750W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-V359
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity 80/20

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Seeing as you have gone through the totally unnecessary effort of find out of the LAN of my current motherboard and present it as if my requirements are totally arbitrary (otherwise, what are you trying to prove, seriously?!), I supposed I'm forced to explain myself... As if it shouldn't already be obvious...
    After having 3 previous motherboards (one still in my workstation) all with Intel NICs, I now have one with Realtek, and the performance difference is noticeable, especially since I put an SG300 at the heart of the network.
    Perhaps they have improved, it wouldn't matter either way Its left a bitter taste in my mouth and I would prefer to avoid Realtek in the future.
    Last edited by Biscuit; 09-05-2017 at 01:40 AM.

  10. #298
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    10,234
    Thanks
    520
    Thanked
    1,059 times in 903 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 3700X
      • Memory:
      • 16GB 3200MHz
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Linux, 1TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 30 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Samsung 2343BW 2048x1152
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb/20Mb VDSL

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Intel LAN chips come from a heritage of the excellent DEC ethernet chips, it isn't surprising that they are top notch (though still not perfect, but then what is).

    RealTek chips are really cheap and add very little to the cost of a motherboard, whilst providing "good enough" performance for most cases. It really shouldn't be a barrier to buying a board, just add an Intel network card if you need the better performance.

    I wouldn't buy a board with a Killer NIC though, I really don't see the point of adding the expense.

  11. #299
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    1,076
    Thanks
    73
    Thanked
    133 times in 125 posts
    • kompukare's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77-V LX
      • CPU:
      • Intel i5-3570K
      • Memory:
      • 2 x 8GB Crucial Ballistix Elite PC3-14900
      • Storage:
      • Crucial MX200 | Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD | WDC 1TB Green | Samsung 1Tb Spinpoint
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 290 VaporX 7950
      • PSU:
      • Antec 650 Gold TruePower (Seasonic) or Seasonic SII-330
      • Case:
      • Aerocool DS 200 (silenced, 53.6 litres)l)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10-64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x Dell P2414H

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    On Intel boards there might be a very good reason not to use Intel NIC chips after the recent secutity revelations: vPro and ATM.
    That's assuming the ATM code stack only knows how to drive Intel NICs

  12. #300
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    15,080
    Thanks
    1,208
    Thanked
    2,250 times in 1,851 posts
    • scaryjim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Dell Inspiron
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 8250U
      • Memory:
      • 1x 8GB DDR4 2400
      • Storage:
      • 128GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon R5 230
      • PSU:
      • Battery/Dell brick
      • Case:
      • Dell Inspiron 5570
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 15" 1080p laptop panel

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
    A LAN connector that isn't realtek. ...
    For some strange reason I don't think you'll find an AMD mobo with onboard Intel LAN, and there really aren't many (any?) other big players in the arena, are there?

    I'm intrigued about what you're doing that you can notice the difference between Realtek and Intel PHYs. Measure I'm sure, but I barely notice the difference between wireless and wired connections...!

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    On Intel boards there might be a very good reason not to use Intel NIC chips after the recent secutity revelations: vPro and ATM.

    That's assuming the ATM code stack only knows how to drive Intel NICs
    Given how few consumer processors have vPro enabled I'm not convinced that's a major concern. Even if you're running vPro capable hardware at home you can probably just disable it on any affected devices. And since the attack has to come over the network even if you need to run vPro at home you can just secure your network - and if you're in a situation where you require vPro on a home network, I'd hope you're also savvy enough to keep your network properly secured anyway.

    Much bigger concern for enterprises who need to use vPro for system management; e.g. they supply vPro enabled laptops to travelling workers, but they can't always control what network those devices are attached to. That's a huge potential attack vector for this vulnerability. Not really an issue for someone using vPro over a small home lab network though...

  13. #301
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    29,238
    Thanks
    1,529
    Thanked
    2,946 times in 2,387 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X58A UD3R rev 2
      • CPU:
      • Intel Xeon X5680
      • Memory:
      • 12gb DDR3 2000
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2311H
      • Internet:
      • O2 8mbps

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    I suspect Cat just missed the question "what are you missing?" so when the answer came "a non-realtek NIC" he thought you were pointing out the suggested motherboard had a non-realtek NIC rather than requesting one, I nearly did the same!

    I agree with you about the differences - and it looks like a lot of AM4 full sized boards are using Intel NICs rather than the realtek alternative, which I find interesting. Though many are doubling up with killer or realtek (or even Aquantia??! in the case of ASRock - who are they??)

  14. Received thanks from:

    Biscuit (09-05-2017),CAT-THE-FIFTH (09-05-2017)

  15. #302
    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    15,080
    Thanks
    1,208
    Thanked
    2,250 times in 1,851 posts
    • scaryjim's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Dell Inspiron
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 8250U
      • Memory:
      • 1x 8GB DDR4 2400
      • Storage:
      • 128GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon R5 230
      • PSU:
      • Battery/Dell brick
      • Case:
      • Dell Inspiron 5570
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • 15" 1080p laptop panel

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    ... it looks like a lot of AM4 full sized boards are using Intel NICs rather than the realtek alternative ...
    Huh, intersting indeed, I'd missed that. Is that just the physical layer, do we know, or are they using full Intel LAN chips...?

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    ...or even Aquantia??! in the case of ASRock - who are they?? ...
    According to wikipedia:

    Aquantia Corporation is a manufacturer of high-speed transceivers; in mid-2014 it held 70% of the market for transceivers for 10 Gigabit Ethernet over copper wire.
    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquantia_Corporation

    Intriguing...

  16. Received thanks from:

    Biscuit (09-05-2017)

  17. #303
    Bows out! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Hopefully somewhere less backstabby
    Posts
    28,789
    Thanks
    3,203
    Thanked
    4,456 times in 3,442 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Lol,Biscuit I read it as you were saying it had a non- Realtek NIC so hence the question marks.

    I look at the last two mini-ITX motherboards I owned which are Intel ones and both have the Realtek RTL8111E NIC. Apparently the one used on the Biostar is their new generation one which operates off PCI-E and is targeted towards gamers:

    http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-39...-replaced.html

    How any of this compares to the Intel one I don't know but reading around I get the impression the older Intel ones might have been more expensive and possibly a bit more expensive to implement so was only found in a subset of higher end boards.

    The Biostar is only the first mini-ITX one out.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  18. #304
    Oh Crumbs.... Biscuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N. Yorkshire
    Posts
    11,192
    Thanks
    1,392
    Thanked
    1,091 times in 833 posts
    • Biscuit's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450M Mortar
      • CPU:
      • AMD 2700X (Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3)
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Patriot Viper 2 @ 3466MHz
      • Storage:
      • 500GB WD Black
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 290X Vapor-X
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Focus Gold 750W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-V359
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity 80/20

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Lol,Biscuit I read it as you were saying it had a non- Realtek NIC so hence the question marks.
    Bit of a misunderstanding from both sides then i guess. Apologies.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •