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Thread: AMD - Zen chitchat

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Athlon would mean no IGP.
    The results explicitly say "AMD Athlon 200GE with Radeon Vega Graphics". Don't forget the AM1 platform had Athlons *with* an IGP, so it looks like this is continuing that low power/entry level desktop branding, rather than the de-IGPed Athlons on FM* sockets.

    My best bet is that this is their way to avoid "tainting" the Ryzen brand with a very low performance desktop part - whilst they've dropped to 2C/4T on mobile and retained the Ryzen branding, the mobile parts are generally all lower specced than the desktop equivalents. Plus with the existing numbering they didn't really have many places to go with a 2C/4T desktop part (Ryzen 3 2100G?). If they've decided to reuse the Athlon brand for entry level desktop APUs I'm cool with that

    As to the naming, 200 rather than 2000 might be a misread or a conscious decision to differentiate the numbering from the Ryzen line up (while retaining the '2nd gen' tie-in), the G suffix has so far denoted desktop APU (i.e. "graphics"), and AMD usually use E to mean Energy Efficient - so perhaps a 35W or 45W TDP?

    EDIT: if you follow the Sandra link to the Lenovo machine listed there are results for an A6-9500 too, which matches the Lenovo ThinkCentre M715s - so OEM desktop processor looks about right. Whether we'll ever see it at retail or not who knows, but given the list prices for the Ryzen 3 2200G it should be pretty cheap. Also wonder if we'll see it host more Vega CUs than the laptop 2C chip ... the desktop versions so far have had more CUs than their closest laptop equivalents,. A 2C/4T/6CU desktop chip at ~ £60 would be a bit of a winner imo....
    Last edited by scaryjim; 09-02-2018 at 01:19 PM.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    The results explicitly say "AMD Athlon 200GE with Radeon Vega Graphics". Don't forget the AM1 platform had Athlons *with* an IGP, so it looks like this is continuing that low power/entry level desktop branding, rather than the de-IGPed Athlons on FM* sockets.

    My best bet is that this is their way to avoid "tainting" the Ryzen brand with a very low performance desktop part - whilst they've dropped to 2C/4T on mobile and retained the Ryzen branding, the mobile parts are generally all lower specced than the desktop equivalents. Plus with the existing numbering they didn't really have many places to go with a 2C/4T desktop part (Ryzen 3 2100G?). If they've decided to reuse the Athlon brand for entry level desktop APUs I'm cool with that

    As to the naming, 200 rather than 2000 might be a misread or a conscious decision to differentiate the numbering from the Ryzen line up (while retaining the '2nd gen' tie-in), the G suffix has so far denoted desktop APU (i.e. "graphics"), and AMD usually use E to mean Energy Efficient - so perhaps a 35W or 45W TDP?

    EDIT: if you follow the Sandra link to the Lenovo machine listed there are results for an A6-9500 too, which matches the Lenovo ThinkCentre M715s - so OEM desktop processor looks about right. Whether we'll ever see it at retail or not who knows, but given the list prices for the Ryzen 3 2200G it should be pretty cheap. Also wonder if we'll see it host more Vega CUs than the laptop 2C chip ... the desktop versions so far have had more CUs than their closest laptop equivalents,. A 2C/4T/6CU desktop chip at ~ £60 would be a bit of a winner imo....
    Well AMD needs to get a 2C/4T CPU out,because otherwise think of all the Intel fans on forums pushing for a Pentium G5000 and a £60 graphics card over a Ryzen 2200G,so they can have Intel at any cost!!

    I am not joking,you just need to look at some other forums.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I am not joking,you just need to look at some other forums.
    Do I have to? It's been a long week

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Do I have to? It's been a long week
    Look at the AT forum thread,the list of excuses for someone not to buy a Ryzen 3 2200G is hilarious,even including making up a mythical much faster GT2030 launching very soon,or to buy a secondhand Intel CPU. It was 11 different types of excuses last time I checked.

    Also,wait for one of them - Intel is releasing new CPUs and new cheaper motherboards "soon" as a delaying tactic.

    Firstly no one should buy an APU due to a rubbish CPU and poor platform,but now thats solved its back to "all IGPs are crap" argument.

    It almost sounds like astroturfers TBH,ie,like good old Nvidia Focus Group Rollo,level where he for months was trying to make excuses for people to wait for the GTX400 series.

    This is despite articles like this:

    https://translate.google.co.uk/trans...wn/&edit-text=

    Intel postpones product launches
    Internally, the problems of recent weeks at Intel have already caused the shifts of new products. New CPUs and motherboards now without the right patches to publish, would probably only pour oil into the fire, so the upcoming launches are once exposed. Of these, in addition to the new NUCs with Gemini Lake and Kaby Lake-G probably also affected Coffee Lake , whose second wave of CPUs and motherboards is already in the starting blocks. For CES 2018 , these were already behind closed doors to see whether the known date of late Q1 or April can be held, but now remains questionable.
    Also apparently a Ryzen 3 2200G will bottleneck a GT1030. LMAO.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    ...Also apparently a Ryzen 3 2200G will bottleneck a GT1030. LMAO.
    Ask them if an i5 3570k would be alright. When they say yes, point out that the performance is identical.

    Then when they claim that the i5 is better because you can overclock it, point out you can also overclock the R3 2200G.

    Then when they come up with another excuse, shake your head, walk away, and come back to Hexus where there are many fewer numpties

    EDIT: sudden thought. All Ryzen processors are unlocked for overclocking. I wonder if that will apply to this Athlon if it's genuine....

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Ask them if an i5 3570k would be alright. When they say yes, point out that the performance is identical.

    Then when they claim that the i5 is better because you can overclock it, point out you can also overclock the R3 2200G.

    Then when they come up with another excuse, shake your head, walk away, and come back to Hexus where there are many fewer numpties

    EDIT: sudden thought. All Ryzen processors are unlocked for overclocking. I wonder if that will apply to this Athlon if it's genuine....
    Its just so bad it comedic,I mean I can understand a Core i5 8400 against a Ryzen 5 1600 argument depending on what type of games you play,especially with a GTX1060/RX580 or GTX1070/Vega 56 or something,but LMAO with a slower card.

    Unless the Ryzen 3 2200G has some weird performance regression down to less L3 cache,at stock clockspeeds,I can only think of niche cirumstances where a Core i3 8100 makes sense now.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Raven Ridge has popped up on Amazon Spain:

    https://www.amazon.es/AMD-Ryzen-2200...s=ryzen+3+2200
    https://www.amazon.es/AMD-Ryzen-2400...=ryzen+5+2400g

    Spain has 21% VAT,so that comes to around £85 and £135.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    I keep expecting a higher end Raven Ridge, while the R5 2400G seems alright it's a little disappointing when it comes to something you'd want to put in a NUC or MiniITX, the sort of thing you'd have hidden away under a TV like a PC version of consoles.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Isn't the 2400G fully-enabled though?

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Zotac is releasing NUC like devices with Raven Ridge:

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/12319...gebased-sff-pc


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Full-fat desktop APUs too!

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    Isn't the 2400G fully-enabled though?
    What the Vega parts you mean? All the Raven Ridge come with fully enabled Vega parts it's just some come with more Vega than others.

    Don't get me wrong the 2400G is probably going to smoke anything Intel has to offer however from what's leaked out so far it looks like it's going to be slower, in terms of gaming chops, than even the lowest discrete GPU.

    EDIT: Something like the 2400G but with more Vega silicon and 4-8GB of HBM.
    Last edited by Corky34; 10-02-2018 at 06:59 PM.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    What the Vega parts you mean? All the Raven Ridge come with fully enabled Vega parts it's just some come with more Vega than others.

    Don't get me wrong the 2400G is probably going to smoke anything Intel has to offer however from what's leaked out so far it looks like it's going to be slower, in terms of gaming chops, than even the lowest discrete GPU.

    EDIT: Something like the 2400G but with more Vega silicon and 4-8GB of HBM.
    Even if AMD planned such an SKU I can't see it happening due to the RAM pricing problems.

    AMD was also going to launch Kaveri APUs with GDDR5M,but the company making it went bankrupt.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    What the Vega parts you mean? All the Raven Ridge come with fully enabled Vega parts it's just some come with more Vega than others.

    Don't get me wrong the 2400G is probably going to smoke anything Intel has to offer however from what's leaked out so far it looks like it's going to be slower, in terms of gaming chops, than even the lowest discrete GPU.

    EDIT: Something like the 2400G but with more Vega silicon and 4-8GB of HBM.
    RR uses one die across desktop and mobile, the amount of GPU CUs enabled varies from 3 to 11 (shown in the name e.g. Vega 3, Vega 11, etc) and of course different clock speeds. Same for the CPUs - some have two cores with SMT, some 4 without SMT, and others 4 with SMT.

    The 2400G has the full CPU and full GPU present in silicon enabled - a bigger GPU would demand a separate die, for which there would have to be sufficient demand to make it profitable.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Even if AMD planned such an SKU I can't see it happening due to the RAM pricing problems.

    AMD was also going to launch Kaveri APUs with GDDR5M,but the company making it went bankrupt.
    You never know, Intel are doing a Kaby Lake-G so maybe AMD are letting them test the waters, it would be nice to see AMD release a similar product but using infinity fabric to tie the HBM into both the GPU and CPU instead of what i believe Intel has done with Kaby Lake-G and only connected it to the GPU.

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    RR uses one die across desktop and mobile, the amount of GPU CUs enabled varies from 3 to 11 (shown in the name e.g. Vega 3, Vega 11, etc) and of course different clock speeds. Same for the CPUs - some have two cores with SMT, some 4 without SMT, and others 4 with SMT.

    The 2400G has the full CPU and full GPU present in silicon enabled - a bigger GPU would demand a separate die, for which there would have to be sufficient demand to make it profitable.
    I suspect we're talking at cross purposes, the "full" or rather fully enabled depends entirely on how much AMD chooses to include, both ZEN and VEGA are (afaik) pretty modular in design so they could add more VEGA cores or more ZEN cores to whatever they chose to.
    Last edited by Corky34; 10-02-2018 at 08:09 PM.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    I suspect we're talking at cross purposes, the "full" or rather fully enabled depends entirely on how much AMD chooses to include, both ZEN and VEGA are (afaik) pretty modular in design so they could add more VEGA cores or more ZEN cores to whatever they chose to.
    Possibly - what I meant in my original reply was that 2400G is a fully-enabled RR die i.e. it's not possible to make either the CPU or GPU 'bigger' without rolling a separate piece of silicon, which is very expensive to do, hence AMD's current strategy.

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