AMD - Zen chitchat

[kompukare]

The first full Raven Ridge review is out:
https://techreport.com/review/32877/...u-apu-reviewed
Looks good. Pity there are no power tests, guess good power testing will have to wait for NBC to complete their full review.
(Quick aside, didn't realise how bad Intel's HD620 is with even simple things like DOTA in their 'time spent beyond' tests.)

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The first full Raven Ridge review is out:
https://techreport.com/review/32877/...u-apu-reviewed
Looks good. Pity there are no power tests, guess good power testing will have to wait for NBC to complete their full review.
(Quick aside, didn't realise how bad Intel's HD620 is with even simple things like DOTA in their 'time spent beyond' tests.)

Its a not a great review though - they managed to find two games which did OKish on a UHD620 and then conveniently didn't continue for the next two games,and tried to shift it to the MX150 instead which is taking the piss.

They need to be testing Apples to Apples but testing a laptop with sufficient cooling for a 30W dGPU is worrying.

I have had some concerns about The Techreport games testing for a while - I remember they were one of the few sites to show a Pentium G3258 doing well in Crysis 3 against say an FX8350,and then proclaim it was better. I managed to actually dig a bit deeper and they had tested a tunnel section.

You only have to look at the APU testing of BR against say a desktop CFL Core i5 to show how poor Intel IGPs and that is over at least a dozen games. The Core i5 8400 has a UHD630 and gets utterly hammered.

Also,some of the things like PCMark are utterly pointless. In the end look at the comments though "AMD is crap",etc and the Intel IGP is not far behind AMD. It pretty looks more like what Intel would loved to be tested in a review.

Edit!!

What about something more useful like some image editing stuff??

Second Edit!!

How about a Ryzen 5 2500U against a similar chassis with similar cooling. But no Techreport has used a chassis with 25W TDP CPU cooling,an Acer Swift:

https://techreport.com/review/32877/...apu-reviewed/2

Its the one AT mentioned at launch which had the best CPU cooling of all launch Ryzen 5 mobile offerings.

Yet,there is a Core i5 8250U version of the X360:

https://www.intel.com/buy/us/en/prod...-2-in-1-629870

This is my major concern with these reviews,by not equating the test system,review sites are quietly allowing Intel systems with better cooling into the mix,which works especially well for Intel has they have very high peak clockspeed boosts which makes scores look much better over very short periods.

[scaryjim]

... But no Techreport has used a chassis with 25W TDP CPU cooling,an Acer Swift ...

Does the 14" Swift have the same 25W dissipation as the 15.6" version the Ryzen is going to use? I did keep wondering about that ... if it did I don't really see why Acer wouldn't have but the Ryzen in the 14" version...

I think it's going to take a lot of benchmarks to really get to the bottom of comparative performance - the thermals make such a big difference to performance now. Which is a pain if you're looking to buy a laptop - I bet the R5 in the Acer Swift will have much better CPU performance than the R7 in the HP x360. It might even get close on GPU, depending on what clock speeds they actually manage to maintain...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Does the 14" Swift have the same 25W dissipation as the 15.6" version the Ryzen is going to use? I did keep wondering about that ... if it did I don't really see why Acer wouldn't have but the Ryzen in the 14" version...

I think it's going to take a lot of benchmarks to really get to the bottom of comparative performance - the thermals make such a big difference to performance now. Which is a pain if you're looking to buy a laptop - I bet the R5 in the Acer Swift will have much better CPU performance than the R7 in the HP x360. It might even get close on GPU, depending on what clock speeds they actually manage to maintain...

The chassis has to be good enough to also handle a MX150 which itself has a 30W TDP.

I mean seriously:

http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/laptop...5--1#!&tab=vao

FFS,both are there at a similar price and both have the same display and HDD. These review sites are a joke - its no point having fancy testing if you can't even be bothered to equate both laptop models together.

This is more laptop testing then testing the various CPUs.

I mean its also a joke they literally dropped the UHD620 testing halfway through the review. Why?? Too embarrassing when the Intel setup crashes in performance??

[scaryjim]

... I mean seriously:

http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/laptop...5--1#!&tab=vao

FFS,both are there at a similar price and both have the same display and HDD. ...

Feels really weird to see the AMD version of an identically specced laptop be $10 more expensive than the Intel one!

Wonder how long it'll take to get those in the UK... and what price they'll end up at. £600 is a bit rich for my blood really - if it wasn't I'd've had something in the sales...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Feels really weird to see the AMD version of an identically specced laptop be $10 more expensive than the Intel one!

Wonder how long it'll take to get those in the UK... and what price they'll end up at. £600 is a bit rich for my blood really - if it wasn't I'd've had something in the sales...

I still perplexed that if they went to all the trouble of sourcing a AMD HP X360,why they couldn't get the equivalent Intel version.

Also look at the RRP - the Intel one is usually much more expensive.

Edit!!

I love how the reviewer quietly ignores my comments about simply testing the Intel version of the X360.

LOL.

[DanceswithUnix]

I love how the reviewer quietly ignores my comments about simply testing the Intel version of the X360.

LOL.

They just review what they have access to, and in the case of the techreport review it clearly states that they purchased the AMD system but the Intel systems were supplied by Intel and clearly in that case Intel are going to try and pull any trick possible to show the Intel system in a good light.

[shaithis]

They just review what they have access to, and in the case of the techreport review it clearly states that they purchased the AMD system but the Intel systems were supplied by Intel and clearly in that case Intel are going to try and pull any trick possible to show the Intel system in a good light.

The cynic in me wonders where they got the money to buy the AMD system!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

They just review what they have access to, and in the case of the techreport review it clearly states that they purchased the AMD system but the Intel systems were supplied by Intel and clearly in that case Intel are going to try and pull any trick possible to show the Intel system in a good light.

But that is not a good excuse by them - this is not some enthusiast on a tech forum but a business which does this for a living. Plus they should know better as they are an old site and called out companies for trying to manage reviews!

Its only $610 - they could literally ditch it soon after the review. Surely HP wouldn't mind supplying them with two X360 laptops - its exposure for them as a brand!

[scaryjim]

... Surely HP wouldn't mind supplying them with two X360 laptops ...

If they had to buy the Ryzen laptop then obviously HP minded supplying them with even one laptop. Most online businesses run on pretty tight margins - dropping over $600 just to post a review is probably cutting it to the bone - dropping over $1200 could easily be too much to justify the article.

A better question would be why AMD haven't seeded the press with pairs of otherwise identical AMD and Intel machines. They probably do have the cash in hand to do it, and they've got the most to gain from an apples to apples comparison...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

If they had to buy the Ryzen laptop then obviously HP minded supplying them with even one laptop. Most online businesses run on pretty tight margins - dropping over $600 just to post a review is probably cutting it to the bone - dropping over $1200 could easily be too much to justify the article.

A better question would be why AMD haven't seeded the press with pairs of otherwise identical AMD and Intel machines. They probably do have the cash in hand to do it, and they've got the most to gain from an apples to apples comparison...

Which in the end is not an excuse as there are youtube channels which are not massive who still buy their hardware and tr has paid subscriptions too - they can after all sell the hardware off if required like some channels do. I really expect better from them and their founder works for AMD too!

The review means nothing if the laptops are not equivalent models and yes amd PR also could act but this is AMD after all so we could write an essay on that!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

NBC did their review:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Env....266614.0.html

Seems the IGP has driver issues,so they said to avoid it - utter phail on the part of AMD.

[Millennium]

Ouch.

AMD Driver Team(s) need work / investment.

then again that's no easy job I can I'm imagine.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Ouch.

AMD Driver Team(s) need work / investment.

then again that's no easy job I can I'm imagine.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment..._ridge_review/

Chap who owns one says the same.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

https://videocardz.com/74260/amds-ja...-2-and-vega-11

Some interesting tidbits have been shared during OverclockersUK live stream with special guest from AMD: James Prior (Senior Product Manager)
AMD Vega 11 is integrated into Raven Ridge APU

The mysterious Vega 11 is not a GPU by itself. It’s a solution for AMD Raven Ridge APUs with 11 Compute Units enabled. James Prior confirmed that Ryzen APUs offer up to 11 Compute Units. So far AMD only released two mobile APU variants, which feature either 8 or 10 CUs (Vega 8/10 Graphics). That said, the chip with 11 Vega Compute Units would be the top tier Raven Ridge APU. No details about desktop APUs have been shared.
AMD RX Vega 56 and 64 to receive an increased supply

It has been confirmed that RX Vega stocks will be increased shortly. This will allow retailers, such as OverclockersUK, to adjust the price accordingly. Our sources have confirmed that AMD is finally supplying partners with Vega chips, which will allow them to introduce custom SKUs in satisfactory number, while reference designs will no longer be produced.
AMD (Ry)zen 2 will use AM4 socket

James Prior reassured that AM4 socket is here to stay (till 2020). The work on Zen 2 has already begun when fundamental parts of Zen 1 were already known. The important thing here is to distinguish Zen 2 from Zen 1 tick-tock process. The upcoming Ryzen 2000 series are likely to use refined Zen+ architecture. A die shrink and architecture optimizations are to be expected. So the Ryzen 2, or more precisely Zen 2 might actually arrive with Ryzen 3000 series, while Ryzen 2000 (or Ryzen 1×50) will use refined Zen1/Zen+ 12nm process instead.

If everything goes according to the plan, forward compatibility for Zen+ and Zen2 will be available with a simple BIOS flash on existing AM4 motherboards.

It seems,AMD has confirmed,they are doing a process-optimisation step. So they have two design teams - one doing Zen 2 and the other now doing the optimisation onto a new GF process for Zen.

I did ask 4 questions:

Will Ryzen 2 in 2019 be compatible with the current motherboards or will people need to buy a motherboard with a new chipset for that??

Will FP16 seen more use in future games,and is AMD working on getting more PC games to use it??

What impact do you think technologies like HBCC,will have in managing the increasing VRAM requirements of modern games??

Will AMD work closer with companies like Bethesda and Blizzard to make further optimisations for certain older games like Fallout 4 and WoW with Ryzen(Fallout 4 being one of the most poorly optimised games for Ryzen, due to its use of the Creation engine and can draw down averages if used in reviews)?? I am only asking that since I know AMD works with Bethesda,and I have not seen much in the way of performance improvements in Fallout 4 on Ryzen since launch.

The first two were asked,which was not a bad success rate!!

Edit!!

He also answered my question about FO4 - basically said whether older games get updated its dependent on how much the community gives feedback on these things,although the OcUK chap said maybe FO4 VR might be the focus?? Hmm??

[Millennium]

Thanks CAT (as usual heh!)

As expected. I may upgrade from R7 1700 to Ryzen 2(3<?) if they can hit close to 5gigglehertz and have a good IPC improvement.

Then again, honestly I may not, the R7 1700 @ 4ghz is frankly amazing.

Good all round.