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Thread: AMD - Zen chitchat

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Look at the scores of the 95W TDP A10 7870K with 2400MHZ DDR3 when compared to the 15W TDP Ryzen 5 2500U with 2400MHZ DDR4:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bem_...ature=youtu.be
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYn4iwfv8cY


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Asus updates motherboards to handle some new unreleased CPUs:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/new...ios,35969.html


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    First written Ryzen Mobile review:
    https://hothardware.com/reviews/ryze...mance-analysis
    CPU and GPU scores look very good. Battery test less so.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    First written Ryzen Mobile review:
    https://hothardware.com/reviews/ryze...mance-analysis
    CPU and GPU scores look very good. Battery test less so.
    It looks like the HP has a dull display so they needed to ramp the brightness up,and there are potential driver issues too.


    Geekbench shows a bit of a mixed bag of results, but is perhaps telling of the various laptop thermal solutions and possibly where systems might be throttling. Surprisingly, though we tested it over and over, Intel's Core i5-8520U in the Acer Swift 3 consistently beat out the 8th Gen Core i7 CPUs in either Dell or HP machines, at least when it came to Geekbench. AMD's Ryzen 5 2500U in the HP Envy x360 puts up decent Geekbench numbers, hanging with the Intel's 8th Gen chips, and smoking the 7th Gen Kaby Lake score in the ThinkPad in Multi-Core processing, but falling behind it in Single-Core. To be honest, however, the Geekbench scores are all over the map and don't instill confidence. Cinebench seems to scale cleanly, however.

    Cinbench puts AMD's Ryzen 5 2500U near the top of the stack with respect to its CPU throughput, just 5% shy of the top 8th Gen score we got from Dell's XPS 13. Surprisingly, in the GPU-focused OpenGL test, Ryzen Mobile is only showing about as fast as Intel's UHD 620 IGP, while getting thoroughly trounced by the discrete GeForce MX150 GPU in one of the Acer Swift 3 configs.

    However, we'd offer that this OpenGL score for the Ryzen 5 2500U is more likely the result of a driver optimization issue or memory bandwidth, because, as you'll see in the following graphics and gaming benchmarks, Ryzen Mobile's integrated Vega GPU can deliver much stronger performance than this relative to Intel's integrated graphics solutions.
    We also have to underscore, unfortunately, that the model of HP Envy x360 15z that we had to work with here has a woefully dim display. On battery power, even at a 100 percent brightness setting, the machine was only able to output 100 lux on our meter. Since our test methodology has always been to calibrate all laptop displays tested to this modest light output level in order to achieve a level playing field, we had to set the HP machine at 100 percent brightness to run are tests. As a result, this may not be AMD Ryzen Mobile's best foot forward, so to speak, with respect to battery life. In any event, below are the results we achieved with this particular Ryzen Mobile-powered laptop.
    Perhaps it was the fact that we had to peg display brightness on battery power to get a reasonable output level, or perhaps it was that Ryzen 5 Mobile is still needs optimization for video playback. Either way, the end result here is not encouraging.
    We also quickly tested CPU utilization whether running VLC or the Windows 10 video player, and saw Ryzen 5 2500U CPU utilization oscillated at a low 4 - 12 percent. So, it appears at least with respect to VLC and video playback, that Ryzen Mobile with Vega 8 graphics is more power-hungry or perhaps has a bit more driver maturity to undergo to be fully optimized.
    The early indicators for AMD's Ryzen Mobile platform are strong, both on the CPU and GPU side of the equation. With respect to battery life, however, the picture for us is still pretty murky and we're going to reserve judgement for now. Frankly, we don't feel like the HP machine we picked up at retail is a very compelling solution overall. Though it's priced right at $729, its dim display and pokey hard drive left a lot to be desired and ultimately hampered our testing from getting a clean A/B comparison in certain spots. With Ryzen Mobile in a more premium configuration, with a higher quality more power-efficient display and fast SSD, our view of its performance profile could have been significantly different.

    In fact, AMD may be in a peculiar spot with Ryzen Mobile. The delineation line may be drawn for some users between making the jump from integrated graphics, to whether or not discrete graphics solutions, like NVIDIA's GeForce MX150, might be available in a given model of machine. As we showed, a GeForce MX150 puts up next level performance over Ryzen 5 2500U's Vega 8 IGP at least, though the question still remains how a Ryzen 7 2700U would compare with 2 more Radeon CUs and a touch more clock speed at its disposal.

    Ultimately, it will come down to what AMD's OEM partners like HP, Lenovo, Acer, and Dell can pull together for laptop designs with Ryzen Mobile. It would seem the product lends itself very well to premium configurations, if battery life can be managed in thin and light designs. Either way you slice it, our early view of Ryzen Mobile is encouraging with some real bright spots, coupled with a bit of uncertainty as well. We'll just have to see what comes to market from the major players in the months ahead. What's very clear, however, is that AMD is back on competitive footing again with Intel in mobile processors as well, with Ryzen and Vega delivering a solid 1-2 punch.
    Le sigh,I am not sure why AMD allows these issues to slip past.

    Edit!!

    Dell Latitude powered by a Ryzen 7 2700U spotted:

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ra....264272.0.html
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 22-11-2017 at 11:27 PM.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Also,it seems Raven Ridge radically changed the video decode block:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...unified_video/

    Instead of UVD which was there from the ATI 3000 series,its now called VCN,and if the drivers are not fully working for that it might explain the issues.

    OFC,it is still the fault of AMD if it is driver issues though.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Hothardware primarily used VLC for testing power draw by the looks of it - IIRC in some cases hardware decode doesn't always work properly by default with VLC, and when I've been playing with settings I've found it does tend to draw more power when watching videos than something using Windows' own codecs such as WMP. IMO it would be better sticking to the likes of WMP for this sort of test, especially with early drivers given VLC pretty much does its own thing when it comes to codecs, therefore one being well optimised for given hardware in the Windows codecs doesn't mean VLC will also perform well.

    It's why VLC became famous for being a simple program which you could throw pretty much any media file at and it would usually play regardless of installed codecs.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    AMD are releasing RR parts around February 2018. Maybe new Ryzen parts... Has anyone heard anything?

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Nothing official, but that would fit with the general roadmap that they've previously announced (i.e. mobile Raven Ridge in select products now and bulk products in the early new year, followed by desktop RR).

    There's meant to be a small die APU (2 cores + 3 CUs) that really should be making up the bulk of the mobile sales, but I don't know if that will come before or after the desktop RR parts. That's several APUs lines to be announced/fleshed out in the new year.

    Given the desktop Ryzen CPUs run as low as 4C/4T, I can't really see there being any RR-derived CPUs either, unless they have real issues with the shader fabrication. That is, unless/until they release the small die APU, at which point they could introduce a Ryzen 1 line of HT dual cores at < £90 which would be pretty cheap to fab....

    That said I can see them not wanting to wait too long before they get the 12nm Zen+ core into shipping products. It'll be interesting to see how much more clock speed they can ring out of the architecture by shifting process. Also there were a lot of hints in the mobile Ryzen launch stories that the next gen of desktop products will get the same frequency and power tuning that makes Ryzen mobile perform so well in a given power envelope, including the finer-grained load adaptive boost that optimises performance for moderate-load scenarios...

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Nothing official, but that would fit with the general roadmap that they've previously announced (i.e. mobile Raven Ridge in select products now and bulk products in the early new year, followed by desktop RR).

    There's meant to be a small die APU (2 cores + 3 CUs) that really should be making up the bulk of the mobile sales, but I don't know if that will come before or after the desktop RR parts. That's several APUs lines to be announced/fleshed out in the new year.

    Given the desktop Ryzen CPUs run as low as 4C/4T, I can't really see there being any RR-derived CPUs either, unless they have real issues with the shader fabrication. That is, unless/until they release the small die APU, at which point they could introduce a Ryzen 1 line of HT dual cores at < £90 which would be pretty cheap to fab....

    That said I can see them not wanting to wait too long before they get the 12nm Zen+ core into shipping products. It'll be interesting to see how much more clock speed they can ring out of the architecture by shifting process. Also there were a lot of hints in the mobile Ryzen launch stories that the next gen of desktop products will get the same frequency and power tuning that makes Ryzen mobile perform so well in a given power envelope, including the finer-grained load adaptive boost that optimises performance for moderate-load scenarios...
    Next desktop chips are going to be AM4, do you think they will be used with existing chipset too b350/a370.. or will board manufacturers bring a new chipset in...

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    It looks like the reference Vega cards are EOL:

    https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/31366084/


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Bodes well for the long-overdue custom cooled cards

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Notebookcheck was finally started their Ryzen 5-2500U review:
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Our-fi....266618.0.html
    (The author seems to be US based, so no point looking at the German version first as is often the case with NBC.)

    They even have a preview of their power numbers:

    Looks mostly okay, but compared the i5-6200U it does have a higher avg and max. The Ryzen has an HDD versus the SSD which should favour the Intel, but then the Intel Envy has a higher res screen which should be the opposite. Would be nice if the full review swapped some of the parts but they never do that.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Notebookcheck was finally started their Ryzen 5-2500U review:
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Our-fi....266618.0.html
    (The author seems to be US based, so no point looking at the German version first as is often the case with NBC.)

    They even have a preview of their power numbers:

    Looks mostly okay, but compared the i5-6200U it does have a higher avg and max. The Ryzen has an HDD versus the SSD which should favour the Intel, but then the Intel Envy has a higher res screen which should be the opposite. Would be nice if the full review swapped some of the parts but they never do that.
    The 6200U is a 2C/4T CPU though.I assume the load average and maximum is more a CPU load. If anything the Ryzen 5 2500U seems to be demolishing the Core i5 7500U and 940MX combination in all metrics!

    Edit!!

    Look at the delta between idle and load with the Core i5 8550U.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 25-11-2017 at 04:59 PM.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Notebookcheck was finally started their Ryzen 5-2500U review:
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Our-fi....266618.0.html
    (The author seems to be US based, so no point looking at the German version first as is often the case with NBC.)

    They even have a preview of their power numbers:
    Looks mostly okay, but compared the i5-6200U it does have a higher avg and max. The Ryzen has an HDD versus the SSD which should favour the Intel, but then the Intel Envy has a higher res screen which should be the opposite. Would be nice if the full review swapped some of the parts but they never do that.
    Just to reiterate what CAT said, the Intel 6200U is only a dual core CPU, so it's not at all surprising a processor with twice the cores and a much more capable GPU has higher peak power draw. Ryzen's idle draw being lower is quite important on a laptop.

    A measurement some sites do, task energy, is a better way of comparing efficiency between CPUs - e.g. a CPU which draws 10W to get a task done in 10 seconds, is far more efficient than one which draws 5W for a minute.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Okay, that makes sense. Forgot that the only Intel quad 'U' there is the i7-8550U.
    Not many reviews of i7-8550U laptops, but managed to find the Dell XPS 13, and patched it into the screenshot:

    That's a bit more useful, but of course still not a like for like comparison. Their load measurements seem to be Prime and Furmark, so with a more powerful GPU (and remember that in general AMD doesn't throttle Furmark very aggressively) it all looks very impressive.
    Now, if AMD could only get some major OEM wins. This could be really impressive in a premium design like the Dell XPS's, Apple MacBook Air, Lenovo X1's.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    It's important to remember modern mobile CPUs are configurable in terms of power draw which adds another dimension to efficiency testing!

    While Notebookcheck do a lot of power measurements sites generally don't bother with, they're not always completely clear about what min/avg/max mean exactly. In some cases they explain it has to do with different load scenarios, wifi/BT radios on/off, screen brightness, etc.

    Interestingly I was having a look around Currys/PCW today and noticed a fair amount of the laptops for sale were AMD based. Granted they're not Ryzen yet but it's a better state of affairs than I recall seeing for some time, where you'd be lucky to see a handful of budget AMD systems at best!

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