Picket lines

[Skii]

skii another fine contribution to a discussion....anyway capital letters are bourgeois

Ahh right - gotcha.

What - you mean I'm making a habit of flippant observations and comments

[Theo]

I always thought the term "picket line" came from a bunch of people standing in a line, holding banners attached to pieces of picket fence.... you know.. the wooden things.


Guess not, then!

[shiato storm]

nothing wrong with that...flippant comments all the way!!

- and in the news the other night iraqis still blowing up other iraqis...if this carries on any longer there wont be any iraqis left in iraq!!
and all this wailing in the street business, i know its a completely different culture etc but when sh*t hits the fan do you see people through england running out on the streets in a mob and wailing/screaming/shouting and generally filling the streets with bodies - it almost incites riots and the like; exactly the sort of thing they're trying to avoid, and when trouble does happen loads of them get injured [more packed into a small area, more taken out by bombs] and its very difficult to get help in or out of the massing crowds. its almost carnival atmosphere only 10 times worse because of the seething mass of hot [smelly] bodies pressing round you.
i have been to such a country and enjoy the diversity from our own way of life but one thing i can't get over is this hording out on the streets. don't these people have jobs to go to? its ok if everyone is of a similar mind set but then sometimes they're not - as shown on news, reporters were singled out and beaten for no apparent reason other than the incensed crowd decided to take out their anger on innocent individuals that were not natives. [is that under racial abuse?].
Its difficult trying to understand the reasons for people wanting to revolt against the rebuilding of your previously repressed society, and yet you can see why some do take drastic measures against religious sects from having 'their day' as those not represented would feel angered at all the attention to their opposing religion...thus throwing a few bombs brings attention back to yourself. but ultimately doesn't this reduce the status of your religion in the eyes of others?
why can't people get along? could we be seeing the next version of israel where bombings are common-place each week, if not every day...


edit: not that that mentioned picket lines at all but its a form of protest complete with attempted distruction of protest and thought sort of relavent...

[aeonf242]

Pickets are also associated with intimidation of the non striking workforce......

But I think those days are long gone.

I remember the days of flying picketts "Da Da Da Dom..."

[revol68]

no offence but scabs aren't gonna get no sympathy from me or most other people.....
scabs are scum!

[grand_witch]

PIcket is defined as follows:

"To enclose, secure, tether, mark out, or fortify with pickets. "

[Skii]

no offence but scabs aren't gonna get no sympathy from me or most other people.....
scabs are scum!

Ah right, so if you don't agree with the action taken by your Union and would rather work than strike, you are scum.

Unions in this country are frankly taking the pi55 at the moment, look at the RMT who hold the public to ransom over the smallest issue purely because they can do.

You constantly shout about power to the people and individual choice, but when someone makes a stand on an individual basis, they are scum..

nice logic there..

[aeonf242]

(Union) people who think Scabs are Scum are Scum.

You can't force your opinions on someoen else in this sort of circumstance.

Having said that most unions are a shadow of their former selves.

[grand_witch]

I am afraid I think unions are a totally outdated concepts. Unions only represent a very small percentage of the countries workers in limited areas. Fireman and Policemen all want pay rises to buy houses etc but what about people who are not represented by Unions. What if I suddenly decide I cannot pay my mortgage I cannot walk out of my job or close down the capital, why should other be able to????? This is a particulalry selfish way of solving a problem.

Unions belong 30 - 40 years in the past. This is only my opinion so no perosnal attacks.

[aeonf242]

Unions belong 30 - 40 years in the past. This is only my opinion so no perosnal attacks.

You smell of poo!

[grand_witch]

ooops I thought I had washed it all off.

[floppybootstomp]

Unison. It always seems to be Unison organising picket lines. Usually Council workers.

Sometimes the local Library is closed as the workers are taking 'Industrial Action.' I've often wondered how a library could be perceived as 'Industrial.' I mean, they don't have no looms, no big steel making machinery in there do they?

I don't think picket lines have the same clout they used to. I think it was laws Thatcher introduced that made a lot of aspects of picketing illegal.

Picketting? Much silliness apparent on both sides of the dispute, usually.

[nichomach]

I am afraid I think unions are a totally outdated concepts. Unions only represent a very small percentage of the countries workers in limited areas. Fireman and Policemen all want pay rises to buy houses etc but what about people who are not represented by Unions. What if I suddenly decide I cannot pay my mortgage I cannot walk out of my job or close down the capital, why should other be able to????? This is a particulalry selfish way of solving a problem.

Unions belong 30 - 40 years in the past. This is only my opinion so no perosnal attacks.

So...what you're saying is that because you and others in your workplace haven't got together to bargain collectively, then no-one else should be able to... And you're calling unionised workers selfish? A union is a democratic institution. Its leadership is elected by popular ballot and is accountable to their membership. Compare that to the average company where the majority of shares (if it's public) are owned by financial companies like banks and insurance firms - exactly how accountable are they, outside of maybe publishing year end financials? And as to unions representing a small proportion of workers, what, like...everyone in the NHS? All teachers? All lecturers? All of the Civil Service? Car manufacturers' production line workers? Banking staff? Postal workers? The list goes on, and for a very good reason - collective bargaining is a heck of a lot more effective than individual bargaining.

[revol68]

can't believe the amount of thatcherite guff being said on this forum, the very fact that some of u can grow up and not know what a picket line is fills me with dread for the future.

and im well aware of problems in unions and their leadership being bought off, but they are better than nothing.

As for scabs they are the most shameful selfish beings this side of the bosses, they scab on industrial action (continue to collect a wage whilst their colleagues go with out) yet if the industrial action succeeds they will enjoy the fruits of its action eg higher wages or better terms and conditions.

if any of u have been involved in an industrial dispute u would learn quite a few things about scabs.

past generations fought for the rights to unionise it disgusts me that people can be so blinkered and ignorant of history that they think that collective action by the work force is no longer needed. Industrial action is needed now more than ever if we are to stop the government pushing through more attacks on the working class, cutting social services, privitising everything they can get away with.

if we don't fight back we can look forward to a future of 5 quid an hour call centre jobs and temporary contracts.

the uk workforce is the most over worked in Europe, we recieve less holidays and less rights than everyother European workforce, is there any connection between this and the weakness of our unions.. i think there just might be!

also the point about recognising non union workers is vitally important, they need to get organised but its very hard trying to organise in places like Mc Donalds and call centres as these compaines tend to be so anti union and employ people on temp contracts. As such these workers need a great deal of solidarity if they are to win even the basic right to organise.

Remember if it wasnt for the collective action of workers we would be looking at working conditions like they have in third world sweatshops.

the other thing is that an organised and fighting work force is less prone to scapegoating of refugees and other powerless groups.

[revol68]

oh yeah just a wee quote from ole charlie Marx on unions (or combinations as they were known in his day) i still think it is of great relevance today.

“Large-scale industry concentrates in one place a crowd of people unknown to one another. Competition divides their interest. But the maintenance of wages, this common interest which they have against their boss, unites them in a common thought of resistance- combination. Thus combination always has a double aim, that of stopping competition among the workers, so that they can carry on general competition with the capitalist. If the first aim of resistance was merely the maintenance of wages, combinations, at first isolated, constitute themselves into groups as the capitalists in their turn unite for the purpose of repression, and in the face of always united capital, the maintenance becomes more necessary to them than that of wages. This is so true that English economists are amazed to see the workers sacrifice a good part of their wages in favour of associations, which in the eyes of these economists, are established solely in favour of wages. In this struggle-a veritable civil war-all the elements necessary for a coming battle unite and develop. Once it has reached this point, association takes on a political character.”

[floppybootstomp]

Fact is revol, Unions were absolutely taking the piss in the seventies, they more or less brought the country to a halt. Had they not been so self-serving and so obsessed with their own importance and greed, we might have have got away without having to put up with she-devil Thatcher for around a decade and a half.

She caused more suffering and ruin than the Unions could ever manage, imo, but then again, she had a highly tuned PR machine and gained the populist vote. Fair makes me cry.

And what do we have now? The same damn thing, masquerading under the banner of the Labour Party. I'm confused, really, really, quite confused.

So confused in fact that I started working for myself. But it's still much the same, I'm forever being undercut by the larger Corporations, they have money you see, and money leads to money.

I do basically think though, that pickets are probably a complete waste of time. They just don't have any teeth any more, which I'm not sure is a good thing or a bad thing.