Picket lines

[revol68]

neilI the bosses can gives us all the sugar coated candy crap they want but the fact is and always will be that capital is made from the exploitation of labour.

now stop reading management texts and go live in the real world.

Also the HR models u put forward are only recommended for skilled/proffessional employees and they are not advised for mc donalds workers, tesco shelve stackers or sweatshop workers! These jobs require little training and as such management texts tend to advice a more authoritarian model for them.

And whilst ole Marx may need updating his basic premises still stand true.

and to the idiot saying strikes are illegal, they aren't but thats hardly the point even if they were does that make them wrong. If we don't have the right to remove our labour then we are no bettter than slaves!

[grand_witch]

this is all getting quite heated. Just to clarify I said that it could be argued they are ilegal". But I agree with the idiot part.

[revol68]

then what was ur point????

[revol68]

oh yeah just to annoy you albert einstein was a socilaist.

[grand_witch]

no hold on, oh, no sorry failed to be annoyed. I am not going to reply for the moment as any points I make are just hitting brick walls.

[revol68]

calm down it was suppoused to be light hearted banter..

[grand_witch]

no I was only joking. Its realley hard to do irony on this. So why are you so passionate about this subject? (friendly enquiry)

[nichomach]

Hmm so my age and lack of qualifiactions make my views invalid. I find your attitude or debating style very confrontational and a little arrogant.

P.S I have a degree and a Masters (has no relevance but makes me feel better)

No, they do not, and I never said they did. I merely pointed out that I have a somewhat clearer idea of the 1984 strike since I was watching and understanding the news reports at the time, and you were not. So far, all I've heard from you on the subject has been standard Thatcherite rhetoric. As far as arrogance and confrontational style go, asserting the equivalence of murder to industrial action seems pretty confrontational and arrogant to me.

[nichomach]

this is all getting quite heated. Just to clarify I said that it could be argued they are ilegal". But I agree with the idiot part.

And I'm afraid you were wrong; as wrong as if I were to state that it could be argued that the Earth is flat.

[nichomach]

no I was only joking. Its realley hard to do irony on this. So why are you so passionate about this subject? (friendly enquiry)

1. Because both my parents are union members, my wife is also a union member, and all have had to either take industrial action at some point or vote to allow it, so when you assert the equivalence of strike action to murder and extortion, that's MY family you're insulting.

2. Because I despise this idea that every time there's industrial action it's always the fault of "the unions". So when Royal Mail attempt to instigate workplace changes which are actually dangerous in addition to changing hours and pay conditions without consultation and postal workers go on strike...it's their fault. When the Civil Service offers a "pay rise" and new working conditions that will see someone in my mum's office get a whole 50p per year extra (before tax), and have to tolerate significantly worse working conditions and they go on strike because the CS won't negotiate at all...it's their fault. Yeah, right.

[grand_witch]

"you assert the equivalence of strike action to murder and extortion, that's MY family you're insulting."

I did not says that to strike was the equivelent of murder!!!! I said that murder and blackmail could be called negotiation tools. I no way was I calling anyone who strikes a murderer. I certain was not trying to insult you family. This is obvoulsy a VERY VERY passionate subject for your but don't over analysis my comments and twist my meaning. I apologise if you think I was being insulting to your family but this was not the intention.

I thought this was a section for general discussion and banter not a full on life and death debate. I think we should probably leave it there and agree to disagree and try and get on.

[Twigman]

calm down it was suppoused to be light hearted banter..

is it just me or is it it always you who seems to get all stressed about these kinda things, and make a big fuss?

To everyone:
Chill...its a free world everyone! If you dont like it go kill yourself

[nichomach]

I did not says that to strike was the equivelent of murder!!!!

You call them an effective negotiating tool therefore you can also include blackmail , murder and intimidation as further realley good tools for negotiating.

Seems pretty clear to me. The only way that you can logically include ("therefore") blackmail, murder and extortion is to morally equate them with strike action. You chose the words. You made the link, and asserted their moral equivalence. No twisting required, and precious little in the way of analysis. You state that this was not what you meant, and I will accept your word upon that point; it was, however, exactly what you said, and what you said was extraordinarily offensive.

[grand_witch]

Just Let It Lie, I have apologised and unless you want blood there is nothing else I can do...........................

[Big RICHARD]

Hang on! If you decide that your working practices are changing, your employer would sack you. eg. If you were to decide that you have 50 days leave a year instead of 25, your employer would certainly take disciplinary action against you. Surely striking is in a similar vein to getting sacked???

[grand_witch]

Hang on! If you decide that your working practices are changing, your employer would sack you. eg. If you were to decide that you have 50 days leave a year instead of 25, your employer would certainly take disciplinary action against you. Surely striking is in a similar vein to getting sacked???

Beware!!!!!