Picket lines

[nichomach]

As I've said, I accept your word as to what you meant, but in that case what you meant was not what you said. Fine, apology accepted.

[nichomach]

Hang on! If you decide that your working practices are changing, your employer would sack you. eg. If you were to decide that you have 50 days leave a year instead of 25, your employer would certainly take disciplinary action against you. Surely striking is in a similar vein to getting sacked???

Yes, the employer has the power to sack you, and you have the power to withdraw your labour. Where they derive their power from the ownership of the company and its assets, you derive yours from the value of your labour; collective bargaining through unions helps balance that out.

[grand_witch]

I am sure the guy that started this post is now getting very confused? Well this concludes another productive day at work. Nice debating wiht everyone. Nichomach, I enjoyed debaitng with you and look forward to locking horns again hopefully next time on a subject I have a wider knowledge on. What else do you like to talk about?

You will often fine I don't say what I mean. I need to realley think longer and plan what I write. Been a longtime since I had a good arguement, the girlfirend (Partner - I think thats what I am meant to call her) is not very good at it.

[NeilI]

now stop reading management texts and go live in the real world.

Also the HR models u put forward are only recommended for skilled/proffessional employees and they are not advised for mc donalds workers, tesco shelve stackers or sweatshop workers! These jobs require little training and as such management texts tend to advice a more authoritarian model for them.

And whilst ole Marx may need updating his basic premises still stand true.

Unfortunately I cannot, as it is part of my dergree.

I'd dispute your point on empowerment/involvement being suitable for only professionals and skilled workers.
In a course last term, we had guest speakers, and anecdotal evidence that corroberated such HRM techniques being usable in instances such as factory production lines and clothing production.

I would however agree with you that financial rewards are the only real incentive for people in the skillless, high turnover jobs. They are often refered to as the new production lines, for their lack of involvement. And telesales as mental production lines.

But what do you suggest? You haven't done any suggesting yet, only quote Marx.

I am also keen to know why the zeal in the field? Have you jumped on the left wing student bandwagon? Or are you reading politics or something?
Surely you are not old enough to have become disillusioned with 'the system' already??

[nichomach]

I am sure the guy that started this post is now getting very confused? Well this concludes another productive day at work. Nice debating wiht everyone. Nichomach, I enjoyed debaitng with you and look forward to locking horns again hopefully next time on a subject I have a wider knowledge on. What else do you like to talk about?

Well, I'll talk movies, relative merits of different bits of hardware, the usual.

You will often fine I don't say what I mean. I need to realley think longer and plan what I write. Been a longtime since I had a good arguement, the girlfirend (Partner - I think thats what I am meant to call her) is not very good at it.

I thought it was "significant other", or have I fallen behind the times again...

Look forward to talking to you again.

Nick

[grand_witch]

Well, I'll talk movies, relative merits of different bits of hardware, the usual.



I thought it was "significant other", or have I fallen behind the times again...

Look forward to talking to you again.

Nick

I am sure this is a thread in itself. Apprently I introduced my partner (Amy) as my girlfiend at a party and was immediatley told by several people it was partner unless I was still at school. Significant other sounds just as good. I am sure I recognise your name from a disscussion on another weboard (can't remember which one) on Willaim Gibson (SF Writer).

Daniel

[nichomach]

I am sure this is a thread in itself. Apprently I introduced my partner (Amy) as my girlfiend at a party and was immediatley told by several people it was partner unless I was still at school. Significant other sounds just as good. I am sure I recognise your name from a disscussion on another weboard (can't remember which one) on Willaim Gibson (SF Writer).

Daniel

Very probably; I'm on a few, and I like Gibson a lot - although his initial cyberspace series may seem a little overtaken by events these days, I doubt that, say, The Matrix would ever have happened if it hadn't been for Neuromancer. On the g/f-partner-SO front I'm afraid I cheated by proposing; no-one objected to fiancée and I haven't been strung up for "wife" yet, so it seems to be working...you might regard this as a somewhat extreme solution, however...

[grand_witch]

Neuromancer is one of my favourites although you are right a little dated. Although it did open up a whole new world of Authors to me Neal stephenson, Bruce Sterling and Phillip K Dick. Finacee may be a little extreme at them moment but is seeming more likely day by day or at least thats what her mum says.

[nichomach]

Neuromancer is one of my favourites although you are right a little dated. Although it did open up a whole new world of Authors to me Neal stephenson, Bruce Sterling and Phillip K Dick.

Excellent stuff - have you read any Peter F Hamilton? I tend to evangelise about him when SF crops up, extremely good stuff.

...or at least thats what her mum says.

Ah..."and always at my back I hear Time's wingèd chariot hurrying near..."; do you have a fast car? Passport? Dodgy false moustache? A cunning plan?

[grand_witch]

Excellent stuff - have you read any Peter F Hamilton? I tend to evangelise about him when SF crops up, extremely good stuff.

Ah..."and always at my back I hear Time's wingèd chariot hurrying near..."; do you have a fast car? Passport? Dodgy false moustache? A cunning plan?

No I have not alhtough I have heard of him. Can you reocmmend a good one to start with. I am currenlt reading Neal Stephenson CRYPTONOMICON but I am always looking for my next book.

My cunning plan is to ignore everything and hope it all goes away and buy a house (Which I just did) ALhtough If a panic again I will buy somehting cheaper like a Kitten!!

[revol68]

Neil im passionate about this cos i see myself as working class and therefore support the efforts of working class people to assert themselves against the power of capital.

I didn't jump on some student leftwing bandwagon and yes i am disillusioned at "system" as u patronisingly put it. I grew up very aware of being working class, i can remember my dad being on the dole for years after he got sacked for being an uppity shop steward. My mum spent the best years of her life working rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish jobs to support 4 kids.She now looks after old people for 5 quid an hour whilst some lil rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish who does nothin more than gamble other peoples money on the stock market can walk away with over 200,000 a year.

and my alternative to capitalism and bosses is workers self management. Basically industrial democracy.

i guessed ur a management student... god how sad that someone gets the chance to go to university to learn great and critical ideas and they waste it in service of exploiting greater surplus labour from workers.

No Gods,No Managers!!

[nichomach]

No I have not alhtough I have heard of him. Can you reocmmend a good one to start with. I am currenlt reading Neal Stephenson CRYPTONOMICON but I am always looking for my next book.

My cunning plan is to ignore everything and hope it all goes away and buy a house (Which I just did) ALhtough If a panic again I will buy somehting cheaper like a Kitten!!

Last point first - I fended off the other half for a few months with guineapigs - pets are good for that!

Hamilton's stuff - where to start? Well, The Night's Dawn trilogy is a thumping good read (The Reality Disfunction, The Neutronium Alchemist and The Naked God, also there's a book of short stories set in the same universe, A Second Chance at Eden, which is good) but it's large enough to double as an anti-personnel weapon if thrown with sufficient vigour. Very "classic" SF, with a horror twist. There's also a series of near-future set thrillers with Greg Mandel as the central character (Mindstar Rising, A Quantum Murder, The Nanoflower) and those are pretty good and somewhat shorter. If you like your classic space opera, though, go for Night's Dawn, but don't read under the covers at night...

Haven't read Cryptonomicon - any good?

[grand_witch]

Cryptonomicon is pretty good so far. Can be a bit daunting in places. It is mainly concerned with Cryptography and crypto theory all woven around world II and the present. If you can get your head around that then its good. My maths is not up to that level so I am having to work through it slowly. I preferred Snow Crash and the Big U.

I am sure someon else recommended the Nights Dawn Trilogy, I will try that.

[nichomach]

I'll give Cryptonomicon a bash - I'm not much of a maths type either, but it sounds intriguing.