New Top Gear Series Tonight! (2/11/08)

[staffsMike]

Hydrogen is just another form of battery - and we have practically the same problems with producing and storing that as we do other forms of battery. Very dissappointing for TG to fail to see that.

Hydrogen does has the *potential* to be the best form of battery, but we've known that for years and cars running on fuel cells really aren't anything exciting - the important bit is how we can generate and store the hydrogen.

I was impressed by the Tesla too. Converting that to a fuel cell is entirely feasible, but at the moment it makes more sense not to (uses less electricity to charge a battery than to produce hydrogen from water).

Obviously we are both brushing over the finer details of this. Such as the sorts of transitional cars we might get (onboard hydrogen production while still using fossil fuels etc..) and whether the first step is actually to just convert the internal combustion engine to run hydrogen or use fuel cells.

As for production, well it depends whether you want liquid or just compressed gas, liquid offers the greater range but then we encounter the energy issues of producing it. The compressed gas is a good step forward though even if it were to deliver lower ranges, this perhaps wouldn't be so much a problem in transitional/hybrid cars.

There's tonnes of research to sieve through though. The most interesting stuff at the moment seems to be using different metals to absorb larger amounts of hydrogen to keep on board

[Stringent]

moar heatsinks. have you never played mechwarrior

Mechwarrior 2 PWNED. Loved that game so much. I remember kitting one out with all the heavy lasers. Link fire them all blew up the Mech!

[mallett]

Obviously we are both brushing over the finer details of this. Such as the sorts of transitional cars we might get (onboard hydrogen production while still using fossil fuels etc..) and whether the first step is actually to just convert the internal combustion engine to run hydrogen or use fuel cells.

As for production, well it depends whether you want liquid or just compressed gas, liquid offers the greater range but then we encounter the energy issues of producing it. The compressed gas is a good step forward though even if it were to deliver lower ranges, this perhaps wouldn't be so much a problem in transitional/hybrid cars.

There's tonnes of research to sieve through though. The most interesting stuff at the moment seems to be using different metals to absorb larger amounts of hydrogen to keep on board

Currently the single biggest issue facing any hydrogen powered vehicle is in the infrastructure, or lack thereof, to transport the stuff, in highly compressed or liquid states, so that it can actually be used. That's why they had to go to LA to do the test as they currently have the largest number of H2 filling stations dotted about the place.

For hydrogen to be as wide spread as petrol and diesel currently is £trillions needs to be spent on the infrastructure, and that's where the stumbling block arrives, no government is willing to outlay that sort of money to make hydrogen powered cars a feasible option until there is a large enough demand for it, but then no car manufacture is willing to spend the vast sums needed to develop the technology for a wide scale deployment until there is a hydrogen network in place to generate the demand for the cars. Just look at that Honda, its only available in California and afaik its only available for hire and not to buy, but don't quote me on that.

Also you have to look at how the hydrogen is produced at the moment, around 95% or so is made from fossil fuels so it produces large amounts of carbon dioxide, and the separating of water into oxygen and hydrogen is very energy intensive. However there are a few options being investigated that would solve some of these issues such as onboard production of hydrogen (as you mentioned) from water by essentially using a fuel cell in reverse and by having hydrogen produced at the filling station where it is feasible on that sort of medium scale.

Anyway I feel I have digressed. Top Gear was great last night and I think highlighting hydrogen and battery powered cars without dismissing them was refreshing.

[Stringent]

Didn't old Arnie commission Hydrogen filling stations in California?

I think it should be introduced, any new petrol station opening here must make provision for hydrogen.

I did find it amusing it costs the same as petrol.

[staffsMike]

I did find it amusing it costs the same as petrol.

But probably half to two thirds the range..

Obviously the biggest step is to actually get an infrastructure in place but as you point out there is a bit of a catch 22 and in the current climate I don't think anyone will be sinking the necessary money into a full scale transition.

[Andy3536]

But probably half to two thirds the range..

Obviously the biggest step is to actually get an infrastructure in place but as you point out there is a bit of a catch 22 and in the current climate I don't think anyone will be sinking the necessary money into a full scale transition.

It was the same price in the states, and thier petrol is much cheaper than ours. After filling up May said he had range for 250 miles (or was it 200?)

Although there are issues at the mo the technology with the fuel cell and the production of the hydrogen is still fairly new and will get better in time.
It is the only real alternative to petrol, so much better that having 1/2 a tonne of batteries filled with dangerous chemicals that you need to get rid of and replace every so often.

[AledJ]

Anyone know why they showed the same top gear from the 14th for this last sunday????

[PeterStoba]

Anyone know why they showed the same top gear from the 14th for this last sunday????

That baffled me too, they said on the 14th, were back on the 28th, then i seen it on on the 21st and then realised it was the previous weeks... no idea why they missed a week, nothing special happened did it?

[AledJ]

Nothing special happened in the 2 week repeat. I was working too so was pissed off when i saw it was not new lol

[Guy]

This last Sunday (21st) there wasn't a new episode they weren't broadcasting one, as said they will be back on the 28th, so what ever they must have shown on the 21st was a previous repeat.

[Funkstar]

This confused some of us at the weekend too.