LinkBack URL
About LinkBacksOriginally Posted by Zak33
Agreed,
But your employer was insolvent, you would still expect a bonus?
The issue with most postings are they look at the micro instead of the whole.
Agreed,
But your employer was insolvent, you would still expect a bonus?
The issue with most postings are they look at the micro instead of the whole.
I wouldn't care. If I made MORE money for the company I'd be making them LESS insolvent... MORE solvent and therefore worth my wage.
Which may have happened if we did not have to bail out the banks and hence the anger many people have. On top of this recruitment in many areas which are dependent on government funding is reduced simply because the pot of money available is less in many areas now.Lets not bring things DOWN to a level, but bring them UP to a level
My viewpoint is that if people working in banks in the UK find the pay or bonuses are not enough they should go abroad if they can get paid better. It is the same that many people have to do whether they like it or not in other areas outside of banking on much lower pay scales.
I understand the "brain-drain" argument but then this is also happening in other parts of the economy too and yet nobody seems to be mentioning this at all. This could affect the UK even more in the long term TBH.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 14-01-2010 at 07:15 PM.
The key supposition is that the bonuses must be paid (to those who deserve it) in order to keep a required level of quality staff in order to keep the bank competitive.
We're taking this mostly on trust, the banking industry being so well sewn up there's no way of disproving that supposition, so I'm vote 'no' just to find out*.
*Or we would if this were anything other than hypothetical, but I've made my vote and I'm sticking to it.
____
(='.'=)
(")_(")
in short NO
screw it all up and get a bonus your having a laugh
while the rest of us who work damn hard and get nowt
apart from due to economic climate there is cutbacks wage freeze no overtime etc etc
it's time the banking industry got a grip on reality
I voted no, but that is towards obscene cash bonuses per exec...
I reckon bonuses should be released as stock, tieing it to the company rather than just giving chunks of money away.
Post Counts and Other Rewards, Rules, Folding@Home, Fans: Push vs Pull vs Push-Pull, Corsair PSU OEMs.
TAKTAK.co.uk
Well I can tell you this is happening a lot of my friends have just gone to Geneva.
I now have to fly over to Geneva for a friends house warming because of this.
The problem is that they are moving because of the tax too. Now the downside is this will equate to a net reduction in tax receipts. Who is going to pay for the insainly expensive PPP scheme now!
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
There is a lot to be said for stock (even more for stock options). Not only does it encourage long term personal responsibility, but also if the "best and brightest" who know the industry, and the institute aren't willing to take the options, then you know there is something is rotten.
A lot of blame has been laid on regulators, but by the nature of their remuneration, if your smart and want money (and who really dosen't) you will earn more with less long term responsibility trading. This is why in many ways gov regulation will never work.
If you can replace that with the people who know the institute inside having a requirement to regulate it, then you might stop problems happening.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
It is not only in banking that this is happening and the increased tax will affect everyone who is on a better than average wage.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 14-01-2010 at 11:46 PM.
Come on now - unless you know everyone in the sector your personal experiences can hardly be taken as the trend across the board.
You can afford to justify that and are complaining about it?
Back on topic while there is always an element of brain drain when another country is prepared to pay a lot more for the same skills I'm somewhat in the middle on this. If someone has done well they do deserve recognition and reward however if a company is not making any profit then the level of bonus can be quite justifiably reduced or removed completely in my opinion (hopefully on the basis that if and when things improve matters will be redressed). It's isn't simply a matter of the person having done well / having generated profit but whether or not the company can afford to pay. To be fair though:
1) The government are likely spinning this to deflect people away from their own cock ups
2) It is in bad taste - in that it was always obvious that it would upset the vast majority of the public - given that many are not reaping the rewards of their hard work, have been made redundant or are living in fear of being made redundant. I'm sure the banks could have found a quieter way to do this! If people have come to rely upon large bonuses then perhaps the government should ask the banks to re-address their packages / approach though again I agree that people who directly generate revenue or profit should be strongly incentivised to do so, but not in a way that can actually be bad for the business. As someone I once met said:
"The trouble with setting people targets is that they can be really good at hitting targets without being any good at their actual day job"
3) If the government really didn't want their money (it may be our money in theory but try keeping it for yourself / getting it back...) used to fund bonus payments they should have stipulated that before they handed the cash over
Last edited by malfunction; 15-01-2010 at 12:09 AM.
Surely we should get back our money invested in keeping these companies afloat before they give out bonuses!
Trying really hard not to sound like TheAnimus....
....and the quickest (but not the most risk averse) way to do that is? To pay bonuses to the right people....
Zak33 (15-01-2010)
No but there are plenty of statistics showing that 'the city' is responsible for 30% or higher of the top one percent of tax payers income.
So its not the only source, not by a long shot, there are plenty of doctors for instance who earn that much, however england as a country is far to dependant on the city for its GDP (required to borrow money internationally), and taxation required to service that debt.
Say you've had some reckless fool squandering money whilst the times where good, when they are bad they can be VERY bad if those two factors suffer!
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
Looks like the bigger banks in the US will have to pay 117 billion dollars back over the next decade:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8458689.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ax-wall-street
It seems UK banks with US operations will be affected too.
Its more a case of the balance sheet of the legal entity.
Its quite clever because its targeting those which rely on servicing their investments via the international money market. That is to say those who where most effected by the credit crunch (when the international money market stopped lending).
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
If a company is doing well, staff get paid bonuses, if it's not, they don't. RBS is not doing well.
Remember this is a 'bonus', something you get for performing above average either as an individual or group, not for just scraping by. Maybe it's just the perception I've taken away from the few exec's I've seen interviewed, but there's seems to be a sense of entitlement surrounding them in the financial sector. the fact they're even talking about bonuses now only reinforces this opinion for me. As someone already said, very bad taste when people are genuinely suffering because of their mistakes.
I'm of no doubt that some people have earned theirs, but if they all had, we wouldn't be bailing them out, would we? Retaining staff if not an argument, when many/all may be redundant without the bailout. Especially when some at the very highest levels are responsible for the situation your entire sector is in, and the effect that has had on everyone else.
Gambling and winning doesn't count as earning it either.
I don't think anyone disagrees there need to be serious changes in the culture of the financial sector the world over, focusing on long term stability and growth in a responsible manner rather than the proverbial 'quick buck'. This isn't just on the banks to do, but the regulators too, who are equally to blame for this mess IMO.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
