Who knows contract law?

[TheAnimus]

So a certain mail order company, and delivery firm are, well useless.

for the third time they have delivered something to my mailslot, blocking it, which is for someone in a different building.... Ok so there are two letters in the postcode the same, congrats.

Now I've contacted them, Mrs xxxx has contacted them to complain but they did it again.

So my normal minimum established rate is for consultancy is of a full day, if I sent a contract to the company for personal delivery from my flat to this lady up the road, quoting my current minimum rate.

If they filled my mailbox with junk for her again, could I then simply invoice them for the a money? Would that be acceptance?

[peterb]

You could always invoice them - whether they would pay is another matter (I doubt it) and then you really do want to study contract law if you really intend pursuing the case in court under the fast track scheme (what used to be called the small claims court - unless your daily rate is truly phenomenal )

[Saracen]

With the usual IANAL caveat, no it wouldn't be an enforceable contract. I suspect it would fail on the exchange of value criteria, and it would also fail on the absence of any intention to be contractually bound on their part.

But if this does work, please let me know, because the inference is that every time some marketing department sends me junk mail, I could send them a contract telling them I'll charge my hourly rate to reply every time they do it again, and then stick them for the bill. I could give up actually working. .

So no, I don't think it'd work.

However, if you're receiving stuff not sent not you, I'm not aware of any obligation on your part to notify them of their error, or to take care of their goods for them, so I'd be tempted to just remove it from my mailbox and dump it on the floor. You could not, of course, keep it as that would be rather too close to theft for comfort, but you don't have to look after their goods or correct their mistakes, so don't.

[Lucio]

Hmmm, one thought though is that anything that arrives that you actually want could be treated as unsolicited goods, meaning you can keep hold of them providing you let the sender know you've recieved them and didn't order them and they've got 14 days to collect them at their expense (meaning they'd have to pay you if they want you to take time off work) or else you keep the goods.

If you want to be nice, you can then give them to the intended recipient for free but that's up to you

[TheAnimus]

... and they've got 14 days to collect them at their expense (meaning they'd have to pay you if they want you to take time off work)....

Wait what?

My plan was to invoice them for my minimum (First days rate, which is x2 normal days), but the idea of taking time off waiting for courier is quite nice, if I could wangle a lie in on weds.....

But I'm sure you can understand my frustration

[peterb]

Yup - spent all day Saturday waiting for something to be delivered - after paying a premium for Saturday delivery - and nothing.

[TheAnimus]

Amazon and their evening delivery, I've had them deliver it 1 hour early. In one way its great, but in another way, I had my poor neighbours have to take in 3 packages in a week.

[oolon]

Many drivers have there "routes" and don't care about premium delivery times, as it affects the whole route too much. Fedex told me not to bother with 9am deliveries or later ones as they would always be at my work at 9:40! (I work for a distribution company), fedex come 2 times a day, the other time being 6pm.

The only "nasty" thing you could do is to get the delivery company to come collect the goods, if they don't (after a period of time), they would become yours.

[Saracen]

Hmmm, one thought though is that anything that arrives that you actually want could be treated as unsolicited goods, meaning you can keep hold of them providing you let the sender know you've recieved them and didn't order them and they've got 14 days to collect them at their expense (meaning they'd have to pay you if they want you to take time off work) or else you keep the goods.

If you want to be nice, you can then give them to the intended recipient for free but that's up to you

Sorry, but absolutely not. It's far from "anything that arrives".

"Unsolicited" goods are goods sent to a specific individual with the intent of him acquiring them. As I read it, these weren't sent to Animus but to someone in a different building. They are therefore simply delivered in error to Animus, and not in any way intended for him to acquire then. They are therefore not unsolicited.

Bear in mind what the unsolicited goods law (the original 1971 Act having been replaced by part of the DSRs) was intended to deal with .... inertia selling .... where someone sends you goods you didn't ask for and then bills you for them, Some publishing companies were especially fond of this trick. But, clearly, if the intent if for you to acquire them, then the delivery will be followed by expectation of payment. That is not the case in goods delivered in error.

Specifically, the DSR says

24. - (1) Paragraphs (2) and (3) apply if -

(a) unsolicited goods are sent to a person ("the recipient") with a view to his acquiring them;

(b) the recipient has no reasonable cause to believe that they were sent with a view to their being acquired for the purposes of a business; and

(c) the recipient has neither agreed to acquire nor agreed to return them.

I've bolded some bits of that. The first two stress the sender's intent - the "recipient" acquiring them. Animus was not the recipient as they weren't sent to him - they were delivered in error. Secondly, the provision of subsequent paragraphs are contingent on not having agreed to return them, and the right to treat them as an unconditional gift is in the referred to para 2.

Arguably, you could say that you've given them 14 days to collect, but then you start muddy the waters, because as long as you don't do that, and providing you meet the rest of the criteria (like the "business" aspects of (b) and that the DSR applies (i.e. you aren't a business recipient, etc) the situation is clear - unsolicited goods can be treated as an unconditional gift.

I know there are some websites offering advice and even template letters about giving 14 days notice but personally, and I stress again .... IANAL .... I would not do so. I might notify them that they have delivered unsolicited goods and that under the DSR I'm treating them as unconditional and point out that a demand for payment is a criminal offence and will result in a complaint to Trading Standards or Consumer Direct, but personally, I wouldn't muddy the DSR rights by offering collection.

However, while I might send that kind of letter for goods that were unsolicited, these are not in that category so it doesn't apply here anyway.

One more thing. There is a legal principle called bailment whereby the possessor of goods can end up being liable for them, at least to the point of taking reasonable care of them on behalf of their owner. This applies to all sorts of situations, including everything from a friend lending you a CD to leaving a coat at a dry cleaners or your car at a garage for repair. As far as I'm aware, the bailee (who assumes possession) has to do so voluntarily, but does not have to be doing so for any form of reward and certainly not under any contractual obligation.

Therefore, if something is delivered in error and you accept delivery, you could be argued to be a bailee, with the duties and liabilities that result. But only if you accept. You can't, as far as I can tell, become a bailee without agreeing to it, even if only implicitly from your actions.

So, the summary, as I see it ....

1) The goods aren't unsolicited, so the DSR doesn't apply and you can't treat them as a gift.

2) These goods have clearly not been abandoned. They've just been delivered in error. If goods have been lost or abandoned, and you make all reasonable steps to contact the owner and follow the required procedures, you can keep them. Presumably, Animus can identify the owner (Amazon, or whoever) and notify them.

3) Knowing that the goods belong to someone else, if you appropriate them with the intent to permanently deprive the owner of them, and do so dishonestly, then that's pretty much a textbook definition of theft.

Were this me, I'd see two possible courses of action :-

a) as I said before, just take them out of my mailbox and leave them for someone to collect if they care to look. They're not my goods and I do not want to accept responsibility, which I have not done by accepting the delivery. Of course, they'll probably disappear, but hey, not my problem.

b) Notify the sender and give them opportunity to collect, and their expense and at their inconvenience. It's possibly, if the goods are low value, that they'll just write them off and tell you to keep them. Or they might collect. But I wouldn't be taking time off work to wait for couriers and I wouldn't be going out of my way to get to the post office. The best they'd get is either a fairly narrow window to collect, or a "take your chances" arrangement with them sending a courier.

For any reasonable company that simply made a mistake, I'd be a bit less uncooperative, but given that this company have done this before, and it blocked the mailbox, and they received a complaint but did it again, I'd be far less co-operative than otherwise.

[Saracen]

Yup - spent all day Saturday waiting for something to be delivered - after paying a premium for Saturday delivery - and nothing.

Ruddy marvellous, innit? You don't get what you do want, and Animus does get what he doesn't want. And people wonder why I prefer to pay a bit more and buy in a shop? I have a fairly extensive courier-avoidance strategy.

[scaryjim]

I have a thread around here somewhere charting my experience of waiting for a courier one Friday, which is a day's leave I'll never get back

I get everything delivered to work now, on the basis that even if I'm not there someone will be.

[Unique]

i was thinking about phoning up specsavers yesterday to ask them to book an eyetest for the guy who left flyers outside each floor of the stairwell in my building, as he obviously can't see the letterboxes or the small number of flats on each level, nor the bloody mess he's made

usually if i get the wrong mail thats typically some mailshot crap with a name like mr umbongo on it, i'll either chuck it in the bin or leave it in the stairwell so the postie can see how much stuff he delivers incorrectly

i suppose it's easy to blame it on the postie, but they are probably sick of all the crap that companies send out as mailshots, often with incorrect names and addresses, but they are obliged by law to deliver it

i hardly get any real mail for myself delivered to my actual place of residence as i use another address, but i get a pile of absolute crap through the door nearly every day. there must be a million pizza and curry places. it's one thing when they put it through the door, but so many people just leave them lying at the bottom of the stairwell or on the landings or doormats, or worse, with the letterbox half open so you can tell if someone has been home or not. i usually push those straight through if they haven't been taken in within a day or two as it's just an invite to theives and vandals

[mycarsavw]

Reminds me of this;

http://www.paulmccrudden.com/sixweeks.htm

For the six weeks from mid-June to end-July 2009, I recorded all the time and money I spent as a consumer. And, having invoiced over 50 companies, I'm now waiting for them to pay me for this time I've spent with their brand.

[peterb]

<off topic>

I'm really not sure about that acronym for I am not a lawyer (I ANAL)

Smacks a bit too much of I Phone - but then, same thing I suppose.

Yes, Iknow - cheap shot but thought I'd get in there before The animus!

</off topic>

[Mblaster]

If it was me, since you haven't signed for these deliveries I'd either just keep them or throw them out. It surely can't become your responsibility to ensure correct delivery/return just because the courier happens to have put it in your mail box.

And if it comes down to it, there's no proof of delivery to your address so you've got you ass covered as far as I see.

[Muns]

Is this UK law you are asking about?

Normally I would say notify them repeatedly that they have misdelivered the package and they are welcome to collect it (at a time that works for your schedule - why should you be inconvenienced by their mistake?) or you can return it for postage costs incurred. If they don't respond (and they probably won't), then keep the goods / sell them.

However this case you know who the intended recipient is, and she may even ask you if you got the package. I'd say general human kindness would mean taking it to her, or telling her you have her package and she can come and pick it up.

If you are going to sue the delivery company, then I think you sue for damages, ie. loss incurred. So you have to say what loss you have incurred (eg. if you were expecting a package that couldn't be delivered because the mailbox was full and you had to pay for re-delivery of the package, then you could sue for those costs i suppose). Even then, I don't know if you can sue just because they "filled up" your mailbox.. and it does sound like they are making a genuine mistake (albeit frequently).

Unless you're missing your packages or letters because of them filling your mailbox, or it is happening frequently, I'd say don't stress over it. And if it happens, call her over to collect the misdelivered package.