what do you believe

[Knoxville]

The bible's a story and evoloution is a theory that could well be wrong, remember when all the best scientists thought the smallest thing was the atom? i think we have yet to find out tbh

[Stewart]

Watch out for that lightning bolt Vual

Which of the purple smilies is me, and which God? God wouldn't point and laugh would he? He's above all that.

If he striketh me down with a bolt from on high, then what can I say but...

Well, what can I say but 'the smilie with the little 'Oops!' sign won't work.

[Galant]

Alright then - me against the world apparently.

I'd want to back Deluded Guy up on his assertion that in fact there should be a third option. There is a large secotr of Christianty which has looked at the issue and favours a God inspired and directed evolution.

If you want to debate this one, go ahead, but please can we do this properly. Just as many evolutionists complain that those who stand against evolution don't truly understand it, so too it seems that everyone and his mother has an opinion on the Bible, yet no grounding to even to begin to interpret it. Let's please use our brains shall we? !

I believe in God. I believe He exists, and I believe the Bible to be the Word of God. I have no hard and fast opinion on how exactly God did it, but I believe He created the universe, and I am quite happy thinking he could have done it either way - over a week or over millions of years. I did all the usual sciences in school, but haven't exactly kept up with things, I'm not a professional scientist, so my understanding is limited. I am a Christian - a term which gets bandied about a lot but is very often misunderstood - and I have studied the Bible. I do every single day. My degree is in theology. So I hope I have at least a decent foundational grasp on Biblical interpretation.

How was the world created? I don't think anyone can prove it decisively either way. Is that truly the crux of this discussion, or are we getting at a , does God exist debate?

I've heard many convincing sounding arguments on both sides. Six-day creationists have to fly in the face of the majority scientific opinion. Scientists have to recognise their limitations and the limitations of their profession, and realise that answering 'where it all came from' is a harder question than many admit - Big bang....where'd the Big Bang come from? What was FIRST?

I don't see that the concept of a supernatural being is at all unreasonable. What I do see is that a lot of people seem to have a big aversion to even considering the option. Surely good science considers all the possibilities - the problem - the supernatural goes beyond the limits of natural science.

People want control - in a scientific world we have learned to control every aspect of nature - but supernatural can't be measured or controlled by our vast scientific resources. I think that makes people uncomfortable.

Is there a supernatural element to the universe? Something that goes beyond the physical?

[nichomach]

I'm with Galant on the third way option.

[TiG]

Is there a supernatural element to the universe? Something that goes beyond the physical?

Galant - this for me is the crux of the matter, if people can see it they believe it. I believe that there has to be something else - something to go to after we die - i can't believe that it all JUST STOPS. I believe in God but wouldn't necessarily say i'm a practising christian, But i do believe in leading as good as life as I can. Trying to help people etc.

For me its not whether god created the universe or whether its evolution/big bang etc etc. Its whether there is part of the human spirit etc that lives on after death...

TiG

[Pete]

Watch out for that lightning bolt Vual

if you dont believe in god then will he strike you down and kill you, if you dont believe in him does he have power over you?

also galant i think that something or someone did make the universe but that doesnt mean it was god

the big bang could have been a universe inploding to form a new one, like those bugs that die and there baby eats there flesh to start its life cant remember what there called tho. so maby there have been hundreds of millions of universes all beggining each other with the end of themselves,

what started this 'chain reaction' i dont know but it doesnt have to have been god.

Pete

[Allen]

Balls to it all, I don't even wanna think (or care) about how we came about. Life is cruel, short and pointless IMHO.

/me zips up flame-proof jacket

[Galant]

So what, Pete, do you postulate it was? And why is it that you don't think, or wouldn't like it to be God? What is God to you?

[Stewart]

I believe that there has to be something else - something to go to after we die - i can't iG

Perhaps you want to believe that, because that makes you feel a lot better than what's actually going to happen to you when you die, which is either a) You will be put in a wooden box, lowered into a hole, and will decompose, or b) You'll be cremated.

I agree with you, and the Christian's that their way sounds much nicer, but then, that's the whole point, isn't it? Convince yourself that the nice way is true, so you can avoid having to think about the real way.

It's a box and a hole for you my lad, no matter what God you believe in.

See it as a bit like Santa. Yes, the nice way is better, and its much fun as a child when you think Santa flys in, during the night, on his magic Reindeer and plonks your presents under the tree, but there comes a time, when we all have to grow up*, and realise that its our Dad who puts them under the tree, and Santa is just a nice story to tell the kids.

Then you grow up, you tell your kids, they get a bit of fun, they grow up, tell their kids, etc. All very nice, but never actually true.

Maybe you just want to hold on to some Santa-esque nice things*, and you find that this 'somewhere to go after you die' is the best way to do it.

To be honest, I wish I was able to tell myself something like that, but I'm a realist, and I know where I'm going to end up.

* = Neither of these are attempts to patronise you or anyone else. Just making a point.

[Galant]

What's with all talk of lightning bolts??

Vaul - "Perhaps you want to believe that, because that makes you feel a lot better than what's actually going to happen to you when you die."

Perhaps most people don't allow themselves to think of God in deeper, more meaningful, and more sophisticated terms than images of greek myths and old men in the sky because they're scared of what it might mean for them if a God existed??

[Allen]

Or perhaps we simply can't believe that a god could exist and have created an utter ****e world in which we live in today?

[Stewart]

Perhaps most people don't allow themselves to think of God in deeper, more meaningful, and more sophisticated terms than images of greek myths and old men in the sky because they're scared of what it might mean for them if a God existed??

Like burning in the fires of hell, you mean?

I come from Birmingham mate. Hell holds no fear for me.

[Pete]

So what, Pete, do you postulate it was? And why is it that you don't think, or wouldn't like it to be God? What is God to you?

well i never sed it wasnt god i never sed it was however

i am not saying either that i wouldnt like it to be god (sorry if i gave you that false idea) if we find out tommorow god made us all and he is real i wont be annoyed at all, i dont really care who or what made us

i am nothing to whatever created the universe be it a being or a bang, so why should i know what ultimatly created us, why should anyone? we will surely be told when the 'thing' wants us to know, if it can tell us that is.

to me god could be anything (a big bang or an alien life form even, or the old favourite a dude in the skys with a crown and a big beard)
the universe never stops amazing me and if something can create somthing that does that to me, that something is astouding to me and i think we should strive to find out what it was.

something i dont think is right is when people take god to far and start destroying each other over 'it' surely whatever did create us wouldnt want us doing that?

ps apologies if i contradicted myself in anyway during this post (ks3 philosophy doenst go very far!)
pps galant im not trying to get at you or tell you you are wrong
ppps sorry if you cant understand my style of writing

Pete

[Platinum]

Wasnt the bible written 200 odd years after christ by priests using 3rd / 4th / 5th hand accouts?

[DeludedGuy]

Galant has some valid points, and i do concur.

However, I do not believe everything in the bible, becuase it contradicts itself too much. What I do believe, is that the bible is a guide on how to live your life, and live it well.

[lynni]

whoa this is some thread going on

I dont really believe in god, i think there is something but im not sure what i dont think though that just because i dont believe this means i will go to hell (my flatmates theory) the people who do wrong and harm to others should tho