what do you believe

[Elmo]

evolution. It's been scientifically proven, the stories in the bible havent. And since i've been studying biology... it pretty much decides it for me. However i do think there's some other sort of larger being(s) that control the ways in which we live and do things etc *shrug*

[Galant]

This is...fun...might take me a while to get to all of these.

Platinum, easy one there, at least on the surface. The Bible isn't just one book, it is made up of 66 'books' - in the 'protestant' 'canon' (not a big gun - put simply it's the list of official or authorized books). Canonization is a complicated topic.

To your original question, 'Job' is by many considered the oldest book in the Bible, perhaps 4-6000 yrs old - not sure on the exact date. It's old. The newest books are from the New Testament, I think the last to be written were the letters of John, and the letter to Jude.

There were no 'priests' at the time, per se, the New Testament books were written by the Apostles/Disciples, and a leader in the early Church called Paul.

[Howard]

I don't believe God has anything to do with what happens after we die, before we're born, anything.

As far as I'm concerned we die, we get buried and we rot.

[Stewart]

As far as I'm concerned we die, we get buried and we rot.

That's the one. The one that people will believe anything to kid themselves that they can avoid it. Heaven, Hell, Reincarnation, you name it.

All we are is a feast for worms waiting to happen, no harps or clouds invovled.

[IBM]

love evolution...cracking concept, although (and I'll gladly concede to anyone who can conclusively prove otherwise) there are still some gaping great holes in that theory too...

However, I would like to point out that it's a terrible indication of the limited perspective of people that all existence is tied to science and JUST ONE religious belief. Not that I'm expecting much from a guy with one grammatical and one spelling mistake in a one line post (no offence mate), but you forgot Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, to mention the four other main religions, not saying anything about the hundreds, if not thousands of alternative religions in existence.

Oh yeah, and btw, did all the people in here just write your religious studies essay or something?..that 'as the bible says' phrase rings of essay questions to me.

[lynni]

i dont like this subject dont like thinking what happens when we do die.... i deal with death and dying enough without having to think about what will happen to me

[Galant]

Okay, on the issue of 'going to hell' a simple way to look at it is this - we are beings created with mortal bodies, but spirits that live on past physical death. After the physical, life continues. It is in this life that you choose whether to accept or reject God - and it is in the life after that you experience most of the results of that choice. If you reject God, then fine, He'll give you your choice - life without Him. Bear in mind that it is said that all good things come from God. Even those who reject Him in this life, still experience His blessing and provision even without knowing it. Life without Him, would truly be a terrible thing - hell. Exactly what it is isn't clear, but the point is it isn't pleasant - not something to be trivialised.

Too many people consider God as out to get them. They miss the whole point of the message of God. The message of God is that He does indeed truly love you and that He did everything, suffered greatly, so that we needn't be without Him or Him without us. Still, He gives us the choice of to be with Him or without Him. That is the choice I mentioned above. God's not 'out to get you', He truly desires the best for you.


Vaul mate - don't go comparing Santa with Christianity. It's just plain inaccurate.

Many contradictions - Not everything in the Bible is simple, often hard to understand, but I believe that there are less of these than many people think. Throw a few out, I'll give them a shot. Honest questions, honest answers.

[lynni]

Okay, on the issue of 'going to hell' a simple way to look at it is this - we are beings created with mortal bodies, but spirits that live on past physical death. After the physical, life continues. It is in this life that you choose whether to accept or reject God - and it is in the life after that you experience most of the results of that choice. If you reject God, then fine, He'll give you your choice - life without Him. Bear in mind that it is said that all good things come from God. Even those who reject Him in this life, still experience His blessing and provision even without knowing it. Life without Him, would truly be a terrible thing - hell. Exactly what it is isn't clear, but the point is it isn't pleasant - not something to be trivialised.

Too many people consider God as out to get them. They miss the whole point of the message of God. The message of God is that He does indeed truly love you and that He did everything, suffered greatly, so that we needn't be without Him or Him without us. Still, He gives us the choice of to be with Him or without Him. That is the choice I mentioned above. God's not 'out to get you', He truly desires the best for you.


Vaul mate - don't go comparing Santa with Christianity. It's just plain inaccurate.

Many contradictions - Not everything in the Bible is simple, often hard to understand, but I believe that there are less of these than many people think. Throw a few out, I'll give them a shot. Honest questions, honest answers.

Do u believe that since i dont go to church and i dont worship God that i will go to hell? even if i believe in something....

And what happens if i decide to get marry in a church or christen my children, does that change things for me? will i no longer go to hell then?

[Galant]

Elmo - as far as I was aware the state of evolution remains at a theory. It is in many ways unproveable conclusively - evidence mounts, but not proof.

As for the Bible, what do you mean as 'unproven'. The are many evidences and proofs of the historicty of the Bible. Many historians consider it one of the most reliable historical documents in existence. There's a mountain of material on the archaeology and historicity of the Bible, and the general, mainstream consensus is that the Bible is reliable.

The issues of contention are more to do with content of belief, the message of the Bible not the details. Then of course there are a few 'biggies' such as the flood etc. That debate still rages. Please let's not get into the flood argument. There isn't the space nor time. Please. Have mercy!

[lynni]

u still answering my question Galant or am i in a queue?

[Alex]

Thought i'd make my first poll about something we were talking about in school today.

How do you believe the us, the eart and all living things came about?
a) as the bible says
b) evolution

Both. As loads of people say. But I don't believe that it is in any way supposed to be a historical account, other than that man is fallen ('scuse my grammar). This is not based entirely on science either, St Augustine of Hippo (what a great name!) believed that Genesis was not a literal aacount of creation in 300AD, so to say christians change their beliefs solely on the basis of science is not true.

There is no way that the earth is 7000 odd years young, unless God created a 'mature' earth, and why would He do this? Surely this would amount to deception, and a contradiction between what we can learn about the world from his 'word', and from nature.

Things like the global flood have also long ago been falsified, at least in the frame of reference of a couple of thousand years ago.

My view on this is 'so what'? I am definitely a christian, but I believe Genesis is non literal. There are those who say that this almost makes me a non-christian, but really, priorities!

I don't just take this view as an easy way out either. I think that Genesis not only is non-literal, but was always meant to be as such, and meant to be taken by the original audience in the same way as Jesus' parables were.

hehe, 4/0 so far... Guess jesus failed in bringing us gods messeage

Or God's message has nothing to do with evolution. Sorry, don't know if your post was meant to be serious or not!

Well one of the nicest theories to combine both is that God's days are 1 Billion years old, it took 6 billion years to make the earth etc and now god is resting, that explains why god isn't about as he's resting for another 999997996 years.

Its amazing the amount of people don't have faith in anything they can't see with their own eyes, and its amazing how easy it is to decide the brain into seeing something its not.

TiG

p.s you do need a both catergory as i can't vote for either..

It is indeed a nice theory, but I personally don' feel the day-age theory holds together. There are still problems, plants created before the sun etc.

As Tig says the Bible gives a quite accurate description of the evolution of the earth and life on earth as long as you dont take the time units literally.

As I said above, you can't even take them in the order they were written. Plus things like the fossil record shows that marine creatures existed before trees, contrary to the bible's literalists. Evening and morning appear before the sun. Not to mention that evening and morning are relative to one's position on earth. I personally feel that the day-age theory is put forward by those afraid to completely dismiss a literal interpretation of Genesis.

As the bible's version, when boiled down, consists of 'A big man in the sky with magic powers made everything', I'll believe anything else, before I believe that.

Depends on the way you look at it. Visualising big men with enormous beards who look a bit like a very big Gandalf is never going to be plausible. But is the idea of God so ridiculous? I thought so for years myself, but I've come to the opinion that the opposite is true. But in the end, what you believe is up to you, and we all have the option to choose.

In the time when the Bible was written i'm pretty sure people weren't scientists who know how life begins hence why they may have written that a being created us. I have different beliefs anyway, i can't decide either.

Moses, who wrote Genesis, didn't 'make it up' so to speak, at the very least he believed that God spoke directly, audibly, to him, as did the Israelites of the time. Which is why Genesis was written. The issue isn't why Moses wrote it, it's whether God actually spoke to him. I believe He did, most here don't.

The bible's a story and evoloution is a theory that could well be wrong, remember when all the best scientists thought the smallest thing was the atom? i think we have yet to find out tbh

Evolutionary theory is flawed in a few areas, but this doesn't mean its all bunk of course. What it probably means is that we've got certain aspects of our understanding of it wrong. A bit like how Einstein didn't completely throw Newtonian physics out of the window, but built on it.

Anyway, thats my basic view of it all.

BTW, if anyone wants to debate this properly, with people who really know their stuff, both atheist and christian, then http://www.christianforums.com/f70 is the place to be.

Alex

[Rob]

ops:

My thunderbolt post was not meant as a jibe, I hope nobody has taken it as such.

OK... Yes, I believe there is more to this planet/existence than just evolution. I cannot say I believe in the big man with the big white beard, but, I do believe in a higher spirit.

While I do not wish to consider myself Christian, I do tend to live a vast portion of my life by the same type of values (do unto others, etc).

This consideration though, probably stems from my experience of the few regular church goers I knew. Who I found hugely hypocritical, only practised Christianity on a Sunday, and in my (young at the time) view only went to church to ease the guilt from their weekday life of greed and disregard for their fellow man. (Present company excepted - Please!)

I suppose basically, I don't feel the need to wear my best suit to church on a sunday to prove my beliefs. Especially as I am still formulating my beliefs!

But I would NEVER knock a man for his!

[Howard]

Watch out for that lightning bolt Vual

But seriously, I'm not in the slightest bit religious. I don't want to offend anyone who is, so I'm going to hold back in commenting on my views on it.

[Alex]

Another point I'd like to make, is tht before becoming a christian, I was never afraid of dying, or at least, of being dead. I was always more of the opinion that, screw it, Ill never know about it. And also there are many times when it would be far easier to not be a christian, I have been mocked for it before with no other christians around, and feeling rather alone. Was I believing it then because its easier and nicer to believe?

As to going to hell vs heaven, christianity's teaching is that only by having faith in Jesus death and resurrection can we go to heaven. Not very politically correct, I know, but thats kinda how Jesus was. Sorry lynni!

[lynni]

[QUOTE=ab1385]Another point I'd like to make, is tht before becoming a christian, I was never afraid of dying, or at least, of being dead.[QUOTE=ab1385]


See this is what worries me.... ive seen 'good deaths' and ive seen 'bad deaths' and i know the difference, to have a 'bad death' scares the living crap outta me

And i spose its like, what happens once your dead... the non-existance, can u still see the people u loved? are we looking down on them? and another thing, do u get hungery and tired still when your dead? and im not being funny im being deadly serious

[Scientist]

Most definately evolution!