"i am willing to work more than 48hours"

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Yeah, I got a form that had a similar thing as part of my contract of employment - it mentioned waiving a right to limits under the working time directive (or something like that, I can't quite remember!)

I never signed it - but I still work overtime if required (and get paid for it), I'll happily work OT to get stuff done - especially as I'm in a small company at the moment, but I don't want $employer to take it for granted...it's always if I can do it, if it's on a weekend for example and I have plans that would be a hassle to cancel/re-arrange then I probably wouldn't work it.

Yes thats what i am thinking of doing and saying to them. that i do not really want to work 48 hours overtime unpaid but am willing to "occasionally" work overtime for free to meet deadlines etc. You see, im a married man, planning to have kids next year too so i dont really want to stress myself at work with no social life.

That is why i always fight with my line manager giving him a reasonable doable deadline instead of a stupid one.

TBH a well run IT project should not come to the point where you got to put in extra ridicolous hours. in my current place im in, some of the other guys HAD to work in the weekends. redicolous. not because they are crap developers/slow. its because of the unrealistic deadlines, poor project designing etc etc.

My work mate once told me a famous work triangle:

Time > Resources >features

He said how a manager should only have a say on two out of the 3 above, leaving one of them to be decided by the developers.

He said that if manager controls all 3 and doesnt listen to any of our suggestions about any of the 3, thats when a project fails and everyone gets stressed out etc.

[riviera76]

My contract has a statement to the effect that I waive the maximum 48hour working week. I don't know if anybody has actually opted out of it yet but when the bosses instigate 2+ days mandatory overtime, when we (the devs) get to the point where we need a break and aren't going to do it then we always have the option to just go to HR and get the opt out. Of course, we've never had to yet as when it hits that point the entire programming team pretty much refuses to do the overtime anyway and it's amazing that upper management suddenly decides to relax the overtime requirement for that week

[TeePee]

I signed a few of these as well. The EU working time directive is a disgrace. You chose a job, and you do it to the best of your ability. Who are they to say that your ability must be limited so that people who aren't as good as you can keep up?

They can say 'We're protecting workers from exploitation' but that's BS. You aren't exploited if you choose to do the job!

[Funkstar]

I don't know what the legal implications are, but I basically had to sign something like this or I wouldn't have the job I have. When I'm offshore a standard shift is 12 hours, so that would be 84 hours a week, with the option of overtime every night when required. Potentially i could do a maximum of 112 hours in 7 days offshore (not that I would, our overtime rate is rubbish!)

[roachcoach]

It was in mine too - I've a standard 37.5 hour arrangement, but I do call out work too so that can blow me well over the EU allowance with no real effort. As others have said - its just for this.

I guess it depends on the employer/line of work but when I saw it I knew why it was there.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

i heard its there regardless of what job you are in

[badass]

been honest there is a fine line between working overtime unpaid, and mucking in every now and again. Its a two way street and if your been paid enough you have to accept it, and some days I'll spend an hour browsing hexus forums from work anyway, so maybe its only time they've paid for i'm giving back..

Yep. I work on the basis that pretty much every day i'll work 15 mins over my contracted hours and occasionally I'll work for an hour or more, provided it's occasionally and doesn't become a consistent.
I don't get paid overtime at all in my job but I still think it's fair. I can just ask to have a half day off sometimes and it's never been refused so it's a 2 way street. If I have to work more than 2 hours beyond standard hours, however I will expect time off in lieu.
I think this system is fairest and works best for both employer and employee.

[GheeTsar]

I get paid "to get the job done" which means the 37.5 hours a week in the contract is in effect the minimum I'm expected to be working (there is no overtime either). I also had to opt out of the European Working Time Directive. In reality this means periods of late nights and periods of going home on time or slightly early, depending on what's going on.

[riviera76]

I get paid "to get the job done" etc.

This is the way I see things as well. However, in my job (games industry) I'll get the job done and then the management will decide that actually it doesn't work the way they want it to so it has to be redone etc. In these cases (when it's not my fault) I don't see why I should be expected to do unpaid overtime. If the work isn't done because I've been slacking then I'll do the overtime unpaid. Of course, the reason why I end up doing way more than my contracted 38.5 hour week is because management decides what they want, looks to see if it fits (it doesn't) and then decides to do it anyway. Atleast we get time of in lieu (or get it paid when they realise that it's just not feasible for the entire dev team to take 2 months off!)

[TheAnimus]

Welcome to software development, if you feel your not been paid enough go contracting by the hour.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Welcome to software development, if you feel your not been paid enough go contracting by the hour.

got to have lots of experience for that

[Lucio]

Well, turns out I don't listen to my own advice, I happily signed over my rights earlier today without thinking! Still, at least my potential employer was clear about it, no overtime pay, time in lieu if working weekends but they give flexible working time if you need it.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

lol so if you did have a second chance you wouldnt opt out?

[Lucio]

lol so if you did have a second chance you wouldnt opt out?

TBH, I didn't think about it too much, because the company seemed like it wouldn't take the piss. They definitely gave a "we care about our employees" vibe.

[badass]

TBH, I didn't think about it too much, because the company seemed like it wouldn't take the piss. They definitely gave a "we care about our employees" vibe.

Time will tell.
Many employers are competent and actually value their staff just like their staff value being employed by a decent employer.

[Bugbait]

TBH a well run IT project should not come to the point where you got to put in extra ridicolous hours. in my current place im in, some of the other guys HAD to work in the weekends. redicolous. not because they are crap developers/slow. its because of the unrealistic deadlines, poor project designing etc etc.

It's called office politics. In a large enough organisation with a big and complex enough project it's almost unavoidable. There will be those that want a project to fail Sometimes competence and reasoning have little or no effect on the deadlines being set.

The 48 hour per week waiver is standard for most IT contracts. Has been for all of mine so far. I've worked 52 hours straight before in order to meant deadlines so I don't see the problem, not that I ever want to repeat that. Comes with the more demanding jobs but it's hardly all the time.