Please all read

[tiggerai]

It has come to my attention recently that there has been a continuation of the insensitive, purile and generally nasty personal attacks on fellow members.

Those of you who have been here a longer time should know by now that we do not tolerate this kind of behaviour.

The mod team have been working very hard to keep this a family friendly, informative and supportive environment.

I would ask you again that you think before you type, re-read what your saying and really ask yourself "does this really need saying".

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion, these may conflict with yours. You can't always be right.

I will be keeping a closer eye on things. Please report any incidents by the report post button, or straight to me or one of the mod team by PM.

Any infractions of an insensitive, immature or just downright rude nature will be greeted with a ONE WEEK BAN while we investigate. No questions asked this time, and no debates.

You have been warned.

[Behemoth]

Received, understood and not guilty

[Phage]

No worries.

[Saracen]

Yes, ma'am. I'll be more careful in future.

[aidanjt]

How would you define 'insensitive'?

[Stoo]

How would you define 'insensitive'?

adjective /inˈsensitiv/ 

Showing or feeling no concern for others' feelings
- an insensitive remark

See also: Insensitivity - the inability to respond to affective changes in your interpersonal environment

Or, how about even more simply: "Play nice or you won't play on here at all"

[Lucio]

As I understand it, it's the difference between calling someone an idiot for their beliefs, and stating that you disagree with what they're saying.

Basically remember there's another person behind the screen name, if you wouldn't want it said to you, then don't say it to them.

[aidanjt]

You missed the point of the question. 'Sensitivity' is a highly subjective term relative to whomever you're talking to. A dictionary definition doesn't help with arbitration because it's just as arbitrary as the word. For example, I could be considering your pasting the dictionary definition as insensitive and condescending, my request for clarification was legitimate and deserved a serious answer. Likewise someone could get hurt feelings in a tempered argument for being shown to be wrong, does that mean the opponent was being insensitive in showing how he's wrong? See the problem?

If you make vague rules how are people suppose to obey them? People will just end up feeling like they're in an environment where they can't express themselves without fear of punishment.

[Ferral]

I think the rules for posting on the boards is quite reasonable and not vague in any way shape or form.

To put it into simple terms

Consider other people when you are posting, no innapropriate personal attacks and things like that. If not YOU WILL get banned from the site, permanent if neccesary.

It doesnt matter how long you have been a member or how many posts you have, this is now zero tolerance.

[tiggerai]

As I understand it, it's the difference between calling someone an idiot for their beliefs, and stating that you disagree with what they're saying.

Basically remember there's another person behind the screen name, if you wouldn't want it said to you, then don't say it to them.

Well said.

I would always err on the side of caution. Remember that it is very difficult to convey meaning and context in an internet chat. Read through what you are going to post, and think about how it might be misconstrued.

[blueball]

Read through what you are going to post, and think about how it might be misconstrued.

...and of course that works both ways. Read through what has been posted and think about what it means

[neonplanet40]

Wasn't this brought up not so long ago?

If so then get the big stick out and start beating some knees

[0iD]

Wasn't this brought up not so long ago?

If so then get the big stick out and start beating some knees

Yes it was

Yes we will

[Saracen]

You missed the point of the question. 'Sensitivity' is a highly subjective term relative to whomever you're talking to. A dictionary definition doesn't help with arbitration because it's just as arbitrary as the word. For example, I could be considering your pasting the dictionary definition as insensitive and condescending, my request for clarification was legitimate and deserved a serious answer. Likewise someone could get hurt feelings in a tempered argument for being shown to be wrong, does that mean the opponent was being insensitive in showing how he's wrong? See the problem?

If you make vague rules how are people suppose to obey them? People will just end up feeling like they're in an environment where they can't express themselves without fear of punishment.

Okay, how's this.

When arguing about what is often contentious issues, treat others with a reasonable degree of courtesy and respect. Don't insult them, and that includes hiding behind carefully phrased snipes designed to make contempt for the other clear while staying on what appears to be the right side of the rules.

When saying something, consider if you're having a go at an argument, or a go at the person. If your reaction to someone saying it to you is likely to be that you think it's bloody cheeky or rude, then so will they, so don't say it.

An even better bet is to consider saying it to me, knowing full well I have the ability to suspend, and I've reached the point where I'm likely to use it. So if you wouldn't say it to me, don't say it to someone else.

A good example of being a bit "sensitive" was Rave's reaction when he said

As someone who has posted once in this thread up until now, I'd like to say to Saracen, even at the risk of a sanction myself: I think your threat of sanctions to TheAnimus was very partial, especially as Santa Claus is, though I CBA to use the forum search function right now, a self confessed wind-up-merchant.

here

That, I thought, was put courteously. It might have been better put in a PM, but since he put it in public, and courteously, I answered in public, and courteously. And, despite his concern, there's no inkling of any sanction from me. Had he, however, called me a few rude names in there, he'd have been suspended on the spot.

Another example. Santa and I have had a few humdingers of arguments over the years, and we disagree (or at least appear to) on a fairly wide range of subjects, from, oh, the role of trade unions to Catholic adoption agencies. But we've always argued it on the issues, not resorting to snide personal jibes. Put it this way, I'd be quite happy to go down the pub for a pint and have any of those arguments face-to-face (if I drank, which I don't). For that matter, you and I agree on some things but disagree on a lot of others.

But it's far from always that case that disagreements here always remain polite disagreements, and there's no need for the personal side of such disagreements.


And I for one am fed up with regularly having to step in and try to defuse them. And often, those involved have been here long enough to know full well what the official HEXUS viewpoint on this issue is, and by continually and in my view, quite deliberately hiding behind innuendo and sarcasm to wind the other party up, it is a deliberate "up yours" to our continued and repeated attempts to get people to act with courtesy.

From now on, that cocking of a snook at our repeated requests to behave with some politeness and consideration to others is going to carry consequences if I see it, and it will not matter who the culprits are.

I accept your question as meant exactly the way you asked it, aidan - that you really want to know what we mean. I hope this clarified it somewhat, but feel free to seek further clarification.

But there's one more thing that needs clarity, too. We do not seek to restrain, other than by legal requirements, the opinions people express, but there's an issue sometimes of how they are expressed. If we, the mods, see people expressing that opinion in such a way that they are trying to hide behind the letter of the rules rather than the spirit of them, then we will exercise our judgement as to the intent in the way they expressed themselves.

If I think someone said something that may be felt to be insulting but that I do not feel was intended to be so, then I'd just point out how it can be seen and ask them to be more careful.

If, however, I feel that they had set out to be insulting but simply tried to do it in a way that just stayed inside our rules, or where they can try to argue that I meant it this way, not that way, then I'm likely to suspend people over it. I'm not interested in arguing the finer points of niceties or whether something might or might not be a rule break.

So the point that needed clarity is this - the mod team have the right to exercise that judgement, and will be quite happy to exercise it. it is therefore incumbent on people posting to give some consideration to how they say what they say, and to say it with some sensitivity, because hiding behind a technicality isn't going to cut it with me, or with the other mods, any more.

As I said in that thread I linked to, we've asked, again and again and again, over a period of years, and in many ways, for people to treat others with some courtesy, especially when disagreeing. But there are regular occasions when that doesn't happen, and as often as not, it's the same handful of people doing it, and they've pretty much all been here long enough to know what we expect, and have just decided to ignore it.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, enough is enough and if some of those regulars continue to express a clear "up yours" to our repeated requests to knock off the insulting behaviour and snide, sarcastic tone, then I'm going to start suspending people and if necessary, banning them permanently. And nobody, but nobody (except DR) is exempt from that. I'm certainly not exempt from it.

Ultimately, we've had regular complaints, formally and informally, about the attitude of some people, and I've had quite a few members tell me they won't post in some threads or areas because of the attitude of other posters. Well if that attitude is causing that reaction in those that tell us about it, it's a good bet it's causing it in a lot of others too, and that is bad for the forums. And we won't put up with it any longer.

So people need to give a little thought about how what they say is going to be taken by others, because we, the mods, will exercise our right to judge, and react.

[aidanjt]

Thank you very much Saracen. So to summarise, no blatantly personal attacks. It kinda goes for any forum of discussion.

[peterb]

Pretty much, yes, but includes phrasing controversial topics without some justification or. In a way which is unlikely to cause a reasonable person offence. It also includes respect for someone else's point of view, even though you may not agree with point of view.